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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Janice Turner on safeguarding manages to name everyone succinctly in one column

204 replies

NotBadConsidering · 12/09/2020 07:44

Cuties, Exist Loudly, Stonewall, NSPCC, Bergdorf, Tatchell, MAP...

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8c46aad6-f461-11ea-9de6-a6e4d4016fb7?shareToken=e196d311d52618102baf33fd9f6a2fbd

This is why she wins writing awards. Gets so much across in a short space (waves to Janice! 👋Flowers)

OP posts:
xxyzz · 12/09/2020 14:56

What Datun said.

That headline is completely back to front.

The problem with the age is not that it is too 'terrified of child sexuality'. It is that is too accepting and even welcoming of those turned on by child sexuality and those who exploit children for their sexuality.

moptophairshop · 12/09/2020 14:55

Thanks for the link 2fallsagain, I wholeheartedly agree with all the points raised in the thread and by Janice in this article.

Safeguarding children is the responsibility of all adults and not something to opt in or out of. What is terrifying is the number of individuals and organisations that don't realise this. For some though it goes beyond a lack of awareness of this and moves into a wilful disregard of them. Exist Loudly blocking the National Crime Agency when they offered help from CEOPs clearly falls into this group. If a single child were to be put at risk as a direct consequence of their actions, it would not be acceptable to feign ignorance or claim they only had good intentions. Unfortunately for them, good intentions are not a substitute for proper safeguarding procedures.

Goosefoot · 12/09/2020 14:55

@FloralBunting

But they also know how their immaturity gives them a treacherous power, as we see when a security guard tries to hustle them out for trespassing and they brand him as a child molester. These certainly aren’t your neighbourhood’s average polite children. They’re twerking terrors of the pavement.

Treacherous power? This whole section is suggesting that these girls 'know what they're doing' and have power over male adults. This review is a disgrace, and the attitude it demonstrates is exactly what those of us who have complained are talking about. Frankly, I think the suggestion to check his hard drive sounds reasonable.

I don't know. I think the danger of this is what the film is trying to talk about, and that's what the review is saying. The problem is that the execution fails, and that's because of larger blind spots in our culture around representation by actors.

Young girls are sometimes quite aware of this sort of sexual power, and it is indeed very treacherous. They understand it's dangers, only that they can potentially use it, and that it gets them something, be it attention or material goods or whatever. That's the problem, it's a type of power in the most immediate sense, from their perspective, but they can't see the bigger picture or consequences.

That's a major theme in literature, isn't it? That power is very appealing and seductive but always asks a price, or changes the person who seeks it. We protect children from that because they are more vulnerable even than adults in making that trade, and that it makes them easily exploitable.

It's an interesting story for a film because it really is a major divide in our culture. Children are increasingly being sexualised overtly - the outfits those kids wear are nothing you wouldn't see in hundreds of dance competitions - yet people are also hugely reactive against things like child sexual abuse in institutions. The same mothers putting their kids in these dance competitions or buying these clothes for young girls, and objecting to school dress codes that disallow them, would freak out at statements about their daughters being sexually desirable. But they must know that they themselves are sexualising them. And the same is true in the culture more widely. We are celebrating and denying the very same thing.

The director seems to want to contrast that with what she experienced in a community that claims to protect girls and women from sexual exploitation, by saying that too fails in another way. It's rather bleak really, she doesn't seem to see another option on the table.

The failure is that she doesn't seemed to have considered that her child actors are real people, and that she has used them to create another example of the spectacle she is being critical of.

TweeBree · 12/09/2020 14:42

@BovaryX

The Telegraph is shedding readers like a desert cat sheds its fur in June. This review is a perfect example of why. Its comment section is full of people saying they have cancelled their subscription.
I previously had supported the Telegraph but cancelled recently as there seemed to be a change on how they discussed women's issues.
MillyMollyFarmer · 12/09/2020 14:35

Does that kind of work have an effect on the adult actors?

I’ve often thought of this about all the rape and aggressive sex scenes women have to endure as actresses. I’m actively trying to avoid sex scenes this year at all, because I just feel like we are exposed to too much all the time. Yes it’s a part of life but it’s too much and rape scenes are too distressing for me to watch at all. I don’t want to watch women having to act that out anymore.

BovaryX · 12/09/2020 14:33

The Telegraph is shedding readers like a desert cat sheds its fur in June. This review is a perfect example of why. Its comment section is full of people saying they have cancelled their subscription.

highame · 12/09/2020 14:24

They have Melanie Phillips too, who I usually can't read without getting annoyed. Same for me Errol She makes Breitbart readers look like Woke lefties.

However, I do like the variety.

Goosefoot · 12/09/2020 14:23

@zanahoria

I have not watched Cuties, nor wish to, but Janice has come at it from the right angle, is it right to ask child actors to perform in this way?
I'd say the obvious answer is no, but I think there is a huge blind spot on this topic for people. If we can ask this about child actors, it suggests that it could also be a valid question to ask about other performers. The issues are aren't identical, but we could ask, what does it mean as when a job, like acting, requires so many young women to act in sexually exploitative roles to get work? Does that kind of work have an effect on the adult actors?

People are so uncomfortable with thinking about that sort of thing it's like they pretend that kind of concern is just non-existent.

TheTamingOfTheresa · 12/09/2020 14:14

I can’t access the article; could someone copy and paste or do a share token?

Halfeatentoast · 12/09/2020 14:14

Thank you for talking about this review of this film! I saw it yesterday and couldn't believe it!

SoManyActivities · 12/09/2020 13:57

I saw a clip on Twitter from Cuties of one of the girls in a bathroom taking a picture of her vulva and posting it online while a man was banging on the door, but I have no idea of the context so it's hard to judge what the fuck is going on there.

SoManyActivities · 12/09/2020 13:54

Yeah I don't get it. If the whole film is supposed to be about criticising the sexualisation of kids then 'a provocative powder-keg for an age terrified of child sexuality' doesn't make any sense at all?!

2fallsagain · 12/09/2020 13:48

Safe Schools Alliance twitter thread, giving further information on the many issues raised in Janice Turners, Times article today.

We are really concerned to see so many people calling bigot, which kind of proves Janice's point.

Sorry, late to this thread once again.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1304685410967269376.html

FloralBunting · 12/09/2020 13:47

@Datun

Here is another review, which concludes:

So that's what Cuties is. A boring, aimless, not well thought out, art house film about young girls rebelling against society. If not for the pedo controversy I doubt anyone would talk or care about it whatsoever.

twitter.com/psa_sitch/status/1304596829712121858?s=21

A bit different to top-notch, electric and joyous.

I hesitate to offer a clear sighted assessment of a man who thinks that preteens being sexualized is electric and joyous, but, you know...
MichelleofzeResistance · 12/09/2020 13:44

She was asking for it.
Look what you made me do.
If you didn't annoy me/Tweet that/say that I wouldn't have to hit you.
That skirt (despite the fact you're 14 years old) is a distraction to male members of staff and male students.
In any rape trial: what were you wearing, where were you, what time was it, what did you do/say that implied consent?
Female people holding x views is the root of male violence.

It is an every day social normal in our society for male people to have excuses to avoid taking responsibility for unacceptable behaviour, particularly violent and sexual behaviour, that female people can't acceptably use. And equally normal for female people to be socialised into the belief of responsibility for male people's behaviour, in a way that male people aren't expected to for females.

Datun · 12/09/2020 13:44

Here is another review, which concludes:

So that's what Cuties is. A boring, aimless, not well thought out, art house film about young girls rebelling against society. If not for the pedo controversy I doubt anyone would talk or care about it whatsoever.

twitter.com/psa_sitch/status/1304596829712121858?s=21

A bit different to top-notch, electric and joyous.

MillyMollyFarmer · 12/09/2020 13:44

I honestly can't get over this heading

Me neither. It’s incredibly gross. What a creep.

boatyardblues · 12/09/2020 13:27

In letting this play out, Doucouré is underlining an obvious male fantasy of pre-pubescence: to fast-forward towards being treated as desirable.

Fixed that for you Tim of the Telegraph.

Datun · 12/09/2020 13:22

@Thedisco2000

Datun his words are dangerously close to all those men who claim that "the little girl knew what she was doing, she came onto me, she is the powerful mature sexual one who seduced me"
Indeed. The word 'terrified' appears to deliberately paint people concerned with the exploitation of children as pearl clutching hysterics.

In a review of a film about child sexual exploitation.

It's spectacularly blind.

Thedisco2000 · 12/09/2020 13:17

Datun his words are dangerously close to all those men who claim that "the little girl knew what she was doing, she came onto me, she is the powerful mature sexual one who seduced me"

Datun · 12/09/2020 13:15

Cuties, Netflix review: a provocative powder-keg for an age terrified of child sexuality

I honestly can't get over this heading, given the film is meant to be criticising the sexual exploitation of children.

queenofknives · 12/09/2020 13:14

That list is like a list of the pomo/post-structuralist theorists who started all this queer theory/critical theory stuff off in the first place.

No surprise that the whole world view of the woke is founded on abuse.

I am a bit sad to see SdB's name on there, though.

AnotherLass · 12/09/2020 13:08

"It was not just in Britain that pro paedophile campaigners were active. This petition in France called for abolition of the age of consent...

Not many female names in that list."

Simone de Beauvoir is not a trivial name though. She who wrote The Second Sex. Just saying.

Datun · 12/09/2020 13:04

He appears to be thrillingly glamorising these children.

Aesopfable · 12/09/2020 13:03

So in other words this film shows how eleven year old children through tutoring of the internet become sexual predators? Not at all that they are groomed to become victims of the patriarchy?