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Original poster

Incels on the rise?

34 replies

WildAboutMyPlanet · 11/09/2020 18:23

Laura Bates of everyday sexism has just released a new book which I am thinking or reading but I’m worried that reading it will depress me. It’s all about the ‘Manosphere’ and ‘Incels’.

I was reading a piece she wrote relating to it and I’m really concerned that she says there are ‘tens of thousands’ of men involved in this.

Is it really that bad? I thought these types were a very, very small minority, a few thousand maybe, but she seems to be suggesting they are on the rise. I find it very frightening that so many men feel this way about women and that they are so extreme and promoting murder and suggesting rape tips. Are we going backwards or am I just being naive and this is just yesterday’s sexism with a new name?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/books/laura-bates-men-who-hate-women-ending-manosphere-ideology-a4539346.html%3famp

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JaneAustenWouldHateThis · 16/09/2020 13:44

Yes, what has JP actually said, please?

sawdustformypony · 16/09/2020 13:35

@Heffalooomia

Incells Jordan Peterson pick up artists the red pill community ....they all overlap somewhat☹️
Where is the overlap with Jordan Peterson and the rest ? - asking for a friend.
Abhannmor · 16/09/2020 10:19

@JaneAustenWouldHateThis

Crikey! Thank you Abhannmor.
I have obviously led a sheltered life. Wouldn't have been happy if my son was involved in this stuff.
JaneAustenWouldHateThis · 16/09/2020 09:19

Crikey! Thank you Abhannmor.

bakingdemon · 15/09/2020 13:45

Oops, meant incel movement in post above!

Heffalooomia · 15/09/2020 13:44

Incells Jordan Peterson pick up artists the red pill community ....they all overlap somewhat☹️

Nicetableinnit · 15/09/2020 13:40

I hope not, or I hope they keep their sad little lives to themselves and don't harm anyone if they are on the rise.

bakingdemon · 15/09/2020 13:38

The inception movement seems to have merged with/emerged out of the pick up artist movement - men who see women just as targets for sex. I read The Game ages ago, which was the PUAs' bible, and found it deeply depressing. And it's just got worse.

Abhannmor · 15/09/2020 13:10

Sorry that's a reply to JaneAustenWouldHateThis !

Abhannmor · 15/09/2020 13:06

Google Metro CFNM.

Abhannmor · 15/09/2020 12:56

@JaneAustenWouldHateThis

So I googled CFNM obviously and it stands for Clothed Female Nude Male but I'm still non the wiser.

Anyone care to fill me in (tell me more, tell me more..)?

Ok I only heard of it recently myself tbh. One of my sons does nude modelling for hen nights and of course there is no work since the lockdown. But he heard this CFNM party stuff is still ongoing and there's money in it. Essentially women will pay to attend these events where naked men are ordered to masturbate ( but not orgasm) sit on dildos and what not. There are penalties and rewards etc. I could only find a Metro UK article about it. From what I recall actual intercourse is verboten * maybe some legal reason? It's more about humiliation really . I'm not suggesting there is a moral equivalence with the nastier incels. But it is rather creepy ? Anyway my son is not interested. For what its worth he never feels vulnerable at the hen dos. Those women are lovely and respectful. Some actually do nice drawing !
JaneAustenWouldHateThis · 15/09/2020 10:40

So I googled CFNM obviously and it stands for Clothed Female Nude Male but I'm still non the wiser.

Anyone care to fill me in (tell me more, tell me more..)?

Abhannmor · 14/09/2020 18:49

I heard the WH interview and it was certainly disturbing to hear some of these very misogynistic and self pitying views. A lot of frankly psychotic sounding stuff on the web. But as for the numbers involved I'm not all all sure? And this stuff is just talk or fantasy- one hopes. Whereas , if you wish to sexually humiliate men , you can just go to a CFNM party. Perhaps these sad ppl have similar events though?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2020 15:35

I agree Jane. Significant omission, and it means I no longer respect her work or take it particularly seriously. This idea that merely identifying as a "trans woman" makes a sub culture of young males who appear to me to not infrequently come from similar misogynistic online communities to the incels she's writing about, and have similar backgrounds, somehow different and less of a threat to women than the "incels" they originally hung out with before they "transitioned" is either spectacularly naive or she's deliberately avoiding the issue, which I can understand but don't respect her much for it. NATALT, for those who need a disclaimer.

She also ought to investigate self proclaimed male "feminists", for the other inexplicably missing chapter in that book of hers.

JaneAustenWouldHateThis · 14/09/2020 11:09

To be fair, she's not a gender critical writer. It's not her area of research/interest.

Her area of interest, if the title of her book is anything to go by, is men who hate women.

That would include trans rights activists. How could she not have noticed that!

Angryresister · 14/09/2020 10:57

The thread on AIBU seems to have vanished ...shame as it spoke bout really difficult thing going on in school

Angryresister · 14/09/2020 00:53

Laura Bates on WH was pretty clear on most of the issues and spoke chillingly about how books are groomed from an early age into these male misogyny internet groups. It is frightening not only for the numbers ,but for the rage and anger and murderous intent they learn to see as normal man talk.

Angryresister · 14/09/2020 00:46

There is an interesting thread on AIBU at the moment....

Babdoc · 13/09/2020 15:27

It would be surprising if there wasn’t an increase in violent misogyny among young men, given that they are the first generation to be raised in a sewer of extreme internet porn, portraying the strangling, battering and anal rape of women as “normal” mainstream sex. I think parents have been too slow to realise the vile influences their young sons have been exposed to, and too embarrassed to provide corrective sex education covering respect, consent and emotional commitment.

Original poster
WildAboutMyPlanet · 13/09/2020 15:09

I might listen to her WH interview before buying the book, I Kind of want to read it but not sure how much if it’s going to be depressing.

I don’t know if it’s just being spoken about more, but it feels to me like there has been a shift, from sexist idiots who expect you to give them sex and cook their dinners, to dangerous men who will harass, rape and even murder you for not doing what they want or what they perceive they want...I know there have always been dangerous individuals around, but this ‘mansophere’ movement is very concerning...maybe it’s just more in my face

OP posts:
GrimDamnFanjo · 12/09/2020 18:14

I caught part of her Woman's Hour interview this week to promote the new book. If reliable her evidence was quite worrying...

CuriousaboutSamphire · 12/09/2020 17:58

Does she? I thought it was more she focussed on men and how they are radicalising boys online, talking in chatrooms and in real life about how best to punish women.

Surely that's enough for one woman to research and write about?

I don't understand the urge to negate what she has done by pointing out that she has not done something she didn't set out to do!

ThousandsAreSailing · 12/09/2020 15:52

She doesn't have to be gender critical but it is crucial to recognise sex based differences and she ignores rape and death threats made by TRAs

Imnobody4 · 12/09/2020 14:50

Angela Nagle covered this as part of 'Kill All Normies' in 2017. Things have only got worse since then.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/09/2020 13:45

She doesn't have to be everything to you everybody to have a valid point.

I agree with this, but I think it's a significant blind spot that she ignores the misogyny of TRAs.