Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'We should have the right not to like men': the French writer at centre of literary storm

59 replies

xxyzz · 10/09/2020 15:10

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/10/french-writer-book-pauline-harmange-i-hate-men-interview

Quelle surprise!

OP posts:
Jux · 11/09/2020 15:58

Yes, you're right -- all of you. I should have looked more closely and actually considered before I spoke! I'll admit to feeling rather cross about the world, yesterday. More bright and sunny today!

Women face consequences daily because of misogyny, even This unto our deaths.
This. I agree with this. Yes we should get angry.

MichelleofzeResistance · 11/09/2020 15:38

Reminds me somewhat of those posts that often appear about MiLs, where a woman could explain that her MiL has burned the house down, eaten both children and kicked the dog, and sooner or later a poster will still say accusingly "You don't like her".

Not much liking people who treat you like crap is quite a healthy thing to do really. It's just that in some situations, it's not considered a naice thing for a good girl to do.

DeliciouslyFemale · 11/09/2020 15:32

”I am married to a man, who is great and really supports my writing. But in general I mistrust men I don’t know,” Harmange said.

Actually, other than my late husband and my sons, I feel like that. But naturally I will be accused of hating men, because of a childhood spent being abused by them and being in an abusive relationship as a young woman. Not to mention the harassment, sexism and groping on public transport, night clubs, etc by men. No doubt it is my fault that don’t trust men, not the fault of the men who treated me in such a way and the so called decent men, who stood by while knowing what was happening. There are decent men, but since I don’t know who they are, I’ll continue to centre the protection of women and children, at the expense of their hurty feelings.

roarfeckingroarr · 11/09/2020 15:21

@FloralBunting

Yes, it's a provocative title. But I'll be concerned about the terrible fallout from women who faced the brunt of patriarchy saying they hate men when there are negative consequences for men as a result.

Women face consequences daily because of misogyny, even unto our deaths. When a woman gets angry enough about that to say she hates men, a few male egos and their pride is a bit dented. There's no comparison.

Exactly
nibdedibble · 11/09/2020 14:54

The title’s more like ‘oh god men, I hate them’ in an exasperated way and tbh I don’t know a woman who hasn’t felt that. They are AWFUL and an absolute menace to society whilst also being individuals who are lovely and good to be around. If we can’t discuss the damage that toxic masculinity does then how does that look for women?

Also: news flash. Men are going to carry on with their ingrained and constant misogyny...this wee books not opening any doors, those doors are being held open for men and they get a glass of champagne and a goody bag on entering them.

FloralBunting · 11/09/2020 14:48

Yes, it's a provocative title. But I'll be concerned about the terrible fallout from women who faced the brunt of patriarchy saying they hate men when there are negative consequences for men as a result.

Women face consequences daily because of misogyny, even unto our deaths. When a woman gets angry enough about that to say she hates men, a few male egos and their pride is a bit dented. There's no comparison.

KihoBebiluPute · 11/09/2020 14:41

Just read the Guardian article and wondered if there was a thread on this. It looks like an interesting book. Yes the title is very provocative and I recognise your concerns @Jux but yes it does seem to be saying that women need to be liberated from the pressure to appease, submit, evade and tolerate male violence and misogynistic culture, and free to express and act on a general distrust of men who haven't yet proven themselves to be one of the good guys (and acknowledging that the good guys do exist).

xxyzz · 10/09/2020 19:05

But she's not actually saying she hates men. She's saying she fears men. Because they commit most violent and sexual crime. Which seems quite reasonable, really.

Yes, the book title is a bit goady. But it's not at all the same as just expressing an irrational hatred of a whole sex class. It's just a call for society to recognise the ways that men often attack women. And the impact this often has on women.

At least the publicity may open up the debate a bit.

OP posts:
Jux · 10/09/2020 18:29

What worries me about that is that it opens the door to misogyny. If women can hate men and celebrate that, then men can hate women and celebrate that.

What we really want is for those things to be shameful, isn't it? That we don't judge people because they are black, or Protestant, or women. Or men.