Virgin Active changing rooms segregated by gender identity

To be quite honest, I wouldn't use any gym (or shop) that only has communal changing rooms. It's got to be either lockable cubicles, or curtain cubicles in a woman only area.

I though Branson had sold the majority share of virgin gyms now. Anyway it's a bit of a game changer either way. I was contemplating which gym to sign back up to and it was a choice between virgin and one other. Needless to say, it won't be virgin.

I am sure Branson doesn’t give a shit about women’s safety, privacy or dignity. Complaints will probably be ignored. So hit him in the pocket - cancel memberships, go to rival facilities that DO provide single sex changing rooms. Let him see whether he can make a profit from the (tiny minority of) trans people who will remain his only customers.
Oh, and publicise VA’s decision as widely as possible. Potential customers should be warned that they and their teenage daughters will be subjected to naked penises in a mixed sex changing room.
This stupid decision is a flashers’ and voyeurs’ charter - they have only to pretend that they identify as female and the staff will have to let them in, whatever their “gender identity”.

A genuine transwoman would surely empathise with women and stay out, to avoid distressing the very people they identify with.

Not only does the 2010 Equality Act permit single-sex facilities etc in certain circumstances, it also makes harassment connected to a protected characteristic illegal. Under section 26 could VA be guilty of the harassment of women by allowing males into what are designated as women's changing rooms? Surely by allowing males into a female-only space, VA could be said to be guilty of harrassment by violating our dignity and creating an intimidating, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment. I'm very glad that I belong to a Bannatyne's.

When will "they" get it. We don't want to share communal changing rooms, showers, toilets or prisons cells with male bodied people. Wear what you want, choose which ever names or pronouns you want to be referred to as, just dont ask us to compromise our safety or dignity.

The TW presumably would claim they just wanted to change like the other ladies.hmm

You mean: 'like the ladies'. The inclusion of the word 'other' suggests that the TW is, in fact, a woman and, if we're being truthful to ourselves, we all know that that's bollocks!

Quite. There isn't reliable judicial response to a situation of clearly and forensically evidenced harm having happened.

The most any place will be able to do is what M&S said - which boiled down to 'well if this policy means you're sexually harassed, assaulted or distressed on our site because of our insistence that male people can be wherever they want to, we'll be very sorry about it for you afterwards'.

It's a stark choice for females. Take the risk/suck up the consequences - which may be life altering. Or avoid the space and lose equal access to public life.

Also worth considering: in a situation of forensically evidenced rape sufficient that CPS will take it into a court room, the female involved always and normally has to deal with a lawyer arguing that what she was wearing/doing/the place she was in/the time of day she chose puts some of the responsibility for the rape on to her. So seriously, how long will it be before some woman, somewhere, hears: "but you knew it was a mixed sex changing room where male people would be present, and you chose to go in there anyway and take your clothes off...?"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3850749-Court-hearing-EVAW-CWJ-against-CPS

The CPS don't prosecute rape cases so what chance is there of a prosecutions for indecent exposure.

The problem with those is proving the intent

It's also requires women and girls to be subject to harm first before action is taken, rather than having measures that protect.
Let's be honest, conviction rates are woeful, it's no deterrent.

I noticed for the first time yesterday that the swimming pool had men's and ladies rooms off the changing village area (also used as team changing rooms, but the pools aren't open to the public when the schools or swim team are in). I think it's a good arrangement.

Self ID changing rooms is an open invitation to voyeurs.

The problem with those is proving the intent. The TW presumably would claim they just wanted to change like the other ladies.

There is no provision in the equalities legislation for segregating by gender identity. They either need to provide proper mixed sex facilities honestly, or else stick with segregating by sex. Or a combination of these.

Surely it should be that simple?

Indecent exposure in the UK.

A criminal act.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/66

Voyeurism in the UK.

A criminal act.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/67

I was talking to an acquaintance about swimming with school (not about gender ideology) and she said only went once with school as boys were peering over/under lockers embarrassing the girls so after the first week she refused to go again.

There is a vast difference between mixed-sex lockable individual cubicles in a changing village, and allowing self-IDing transwomen into female-only changing rooms.

The first is not 'allowing men into female spaces.' The second is.

The manager at my club has offered me a personal meeting to discuss, which is good. It'll be next week so I'll feedback as soon as I have something to report.

Keep up the fight

Our gym has a gender neutral changing room/loo plus male and female. In the swimming area, it has a family room and also gender neutral. The rest is men or women.

What the hell is so difficult about that

I do agree we're probably going to have to see a significant percentage of female people being excluded from public provisions and evidence racked up enough on this. And this is the problem. Women will have to suffer significant harm for long enough that it's not possible to brush aside.

This is the tipping point, where either women start making enough fuss and resistance in individual cases that the management realise it won't work, or enough women customers withdraw their custom that the management can't deal with the financial hit. This will however require women to think of the good of and equality of all women and not just themselves, and be willing to stop using a facility that other women would be excluded from.