Virgin Active changing rooms segregated by gender identity

It should Sunset and the fact that it isn’t just shows how deeply embedded stonewall are in the corporate world & national government bodies

I did point out the EA is sex not gender etc.
He believed the same as us tho but had to follow company line.
My husband did laugh when there was obvious waffle to start so I said stop the waffle you are telling me penises are allowed in female changing rooms and he had to say yes.

Everyone on my fb has gone mad! Quite a few members I think may now cancel.
The Branch manager Who spoke to me was lovely, and actually phoned rather than emailed as requested as he thinks the same as us.
I’m gutted as I loved that gym, but my principles mean much more.

Another company following stonewall law rather than the actual equality act 🤦🏻‍♀️

All DH can do is wait outside (but not too close, as a single bloke outside female facilities is seen as dodgy) and trust they are ok.

maybe, as there appears to be no threshold and no need to justify the self-id, your DH could legitimately id temporarily as a woman for the purposes of keeping an eye on his DDs, (although if he was anything like my DH that idea would distress him greatly).

It would prompt an interesting conversation with the staff though - they would then need to make some sort of framework around the idea of 'identifying as a woman' in order to exclude him.

My dd was actually pretty useless on her own after swimming. Eventually DH worked out that another mum was helping her every single week. This was Lovely Other Mum. DD had received help from LOM for maybe two months before LOM introduced herself to DH. DD, aged 8, had failed to mention it.

These things tend to be played out on social media... twitter thatta way >>>>>

I am not a VA member anymore, but if I was and invited to a meeting about this, I would probably ask why they made separate changing rooms in the first place? Then point out that allowing self ID TW into the women's changing room makes them mixed sex. And if the women's changing rooms become mixed sex, then it is discriminatory (I think) to not make the men's mixed sex also. In which case, VA should be up front about and it make all the changing rooms mixed sex. Then members can properly vote with their feet.

We have separated single sex spaces based on our bodies, not our brains.

And presumably the father/male carer would have no idea who is in the changing room with the girl.

This is one of the 'fears' now with my DDs. DH takes them away frequently, and now they go into female facilities alone. All DH can do is wait outside (but not too close, as a single bloke outside female facilities is seen as dodgy) and trust they are ok. They know if they have a problem to ask another woman (preferably with children) (the problems I've anticipated are things like doors getting stuck). But now it's also men abusing gender ID laws to get access to female facilities.

wow! it hadn't even occurred to me that girls were subject to the same age rules as boys so apparently VA are happy for an unaccompanied 9 year old girl to be in the same changing rooms as a self identified male-bodied person??

Have they stopped to think for one minute about the possibilities here?

They have confirmed anybody self identifying as a woman can use female changing rooms. Membership cancelled.

No one is alleging the 9 year old is a massive threat to the safety of single sex spaces. It’s a conflicting rights issue, privacy & etc.

Serenity Virgin Active know very well that self id does not work.
8 year olds is an absolutely live issue that users will have made the site manager know about.
Many parents of 9 year olds could have a preference that conflicts with the privacy of other users. The site manager will be used to arbitrating this. Asking if they ask for id for taller children might be the way to go...

So an 8 year old child can be sent to the relevant sex changing room yet an adult is categorises by gender? That’s a bit confusing isn’t it?

So if it is agreed that an 8 year old child should not be exposed to the opposite sex in a changing room, then how does this work?

Great questions, Michelle.

My VA have tried to call me, and I have tried to call them back. Just waiting for them to call me again now!

It’s not just boys that can’t share a changing room with their opposite sex parent. My dd, from aged 8, had to change away from the “protection” of her dad. Only under 8s can change in either changing room under adult supervision.
From 8, she was sent to the “designated areas in the changing room of her sex”. Her dad sent her in and met her at the steps to the pool believing she was in a female only space.

And another obvious one following that: what is different in the subjective experience of a female person being asked to change or use showers alongside a male person who identifies as a man, and a male person who identifies as trans, non binary or gender fluid?

If there is a policy that it is not acceptable to simply make all changing rooms mixed sex, and to ask that boys over a certain age don't change in the women's facilities, so there must be a reason why this sex segregation is being preserved? What are those reasons and how do they change for females in the light of self identification?

Should have added: you may need to point out to whoever you speak to that subjective identity makes no difference whatever to the issues presented by mixed sex provision. The real and practical barriers women deal with are not removed by someone's subjective self identification. This is a political belief that not everyone is able to share, even if you leave aside the aspect of insisting that everyone must conform to a belief they may not themselves hold.

Any tips on what to ask him/what to point out to him would be appreciated.

I'll offer the question I'm now starting to repeat in my sleep: (never having got any kind of answer)

What are you going to do with female people (I'm afraid the distinction has become necessary) who due to their faith, culture, disability, medical needs or history of rape or sexual abuse/assault/domestic violence are not able to use mixed sex facilities? This would be direct discrimination against them on the grounds of their protected characteristic, wouldn't it?

Are you now holding a policy of excluding those women - many from vulnerable communities who struggle to access sport and exercise? Where is the information about your services not meeting these women's needs? Or would you provide different facilities for those women if necessary?

If so, how will you label and raise awareness of those facilities so that those women can find them? Obviously you can't seriously expect a woman to approach a random member of staff and disclose deeply sensitive personal data in order to request this, and there are then issues about 'outing' women with these highly sensitive additional needs, isn't there?

wingsoverscotland.com/abolishing-women/

Above is link to a poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland showing what happens when question is more specific.
A similar poll was commissioned by Helen Staniland and is pinned on her twitter account.

The full you gov survey is on their website no paywall. 2020/07/16
Paid for by pink news who didn’t like the results and only published the first section.
Last section:
“When specified that the transgender person in question has not had gender reassignment surgery.” The question “transgender women should be allowed to use women’s changing rooms” is largely x’s.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/07/16/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

Try and print in colour.

I’d also take a print out of the first page of this www.stonewall.org.uk/trans-advisory-group
Has the photo shared with the public of the bearded Alex,

Surveying Virgin Active members on allowing self ID illustrated with Alex would get a strong no I would think.,