Virgin Active changing rooms segregated by gender identity

Also: it is disrespectful and frankly beyond naiive to believe that women of faith, culture, disability etc etc can just be argued out of their access barriers.

Those doing it are usually woefully naiive at best.

Those women will be excluded. That's the bottom line. To include men into female spaces, female people will have to be excluded. Female spaces will no longer do the job they were invented for which is to serve the needs of all females.

There is no point in wittering about inclusion, kindness, diversity, tolerance, intersectionality or any of the other buzz words, unless these are extended equally to all female people and with understanding of female specific needs as well as to males. Otherwise it's just basic sexism of males more important, females must give way.

Ask who exactly made the call - where does the buck stop? Who did they ask or engage with? Do they know the law and have their lawyers seen this? How much business are they willing to loose?

Probably worth mentioning when you get the 'it's the law' response to ask where they received that information. Because if the source is Stonewall, this is hardly an impartial and disinterested view, and they need to consider that they have taken their policy from a political lobby group with a very specific agenda. And to look at FPFW and other views to be certain that they are not unintentionally providing a politically captured and anti woman stance believing this to be the objective facts.

Hint: This is why you get involved with political lobby groups with extreme caution when you have a duty to serve all the general public impartially.

I asked my branch manager to forward my emails to head office and that I expected them to contact me. He has just emailed to say he has done that and head office will be in touch.
I also threw in the fact one of my degrees is actually in law. I wish I'd carried on pursuing that career so I could pursue this absolute nonsense better.

Good luck with the meeting NiceLegs.

@Norma27

Thank you. My meeting's at 11am. I'll be back .....

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace
Good luck with your meeting today.
Let us know how it goes. I am sure you will correct them on their misinterpretation of the law better than me.
I hate talking to people on the phone. I'm much better face to face.

Just remind the manager what sex is and what gender is.

Thank you for those.
I have emailed them to the branch manager.

Below is an extract from Equality Act.

"Paragraph contains exceptions to the general prohibition of sex discrimination to allow the provision of single-sex services.

734.Single sex services are permitted where:

only people of that sex require it;

there is joint provision for both sexes but that is not sufficient on its own;

if the service were provided for men and women jointly, it would not be as effective and it is not reasonably practicable to provide separate services for each sex;

they are provided in a hospital or other place where users need special attention (or in parts of such an establishment);

they may be used by more than one person and a woman might object to the presence of a man (or vice versa); or

they may involve physical contact between a user and someone else and that other person may reasonably object if the user is of the opposite sex.

735.In each case, the separate provision has to be objectively justified.

736.These exceptions also cover public functions in respect of the “back-room” managerial, administrative and finance decisions which allow such single-sex services to be provided.

Background
737.This paragraph replaces some similar provisions that only covered public functions and some that applied to services in the Sex Discrimination Act 1975. These exceptions have been extended to cover both services and public functions.

Examples
738.These exceptions would allow:

a cervical cancer screening service to be provided to women only, as only women need the service;

a fathers’ support group to be set up by a private nursery as there is insufficient attendance by men at the parents’ group;

a domestic violence support unit to be set up by a local authority for women only but there is no men-only unit because of insufficient demand;

separate male and female wards to be provided in a hospital;

separate male and female changing rooms to be provided in a department store;

a massage service to be provided to women only by a female massage therapist with her own business operating in her clients’ homes because she would feel uncomfortable massaging men in that environment

FPFW might be your friend here.

fairplayforwomen.com/resources/law/

The point is made that under the EA2010, a person cannot be discriminated against because they have undergone, are undergoing or propose to undergo gender reassignment. BUT, for the purposes of the EA, their treatment should be the same as if they were still presenting as their birth sex. They do not become female for the purposes of the EA

It is Stonewall Law.

Could someone perhaps contact the gym (email might be better for a paper trail) to ask which bit of the law? Specifically, which law states that male people have the right to go into the opposite single sex space if they think they belong in there, regardless of the reality of their biology?

Or maybe to quote the specific bit of the EA (I'll see if I can find it).

I know it is like banging your head against a brick wall, though. I tried to get a sports club to look into why their trans policy was contra to the EA and was told it was their policy and they'd look into it.

I dont think they're idiots - I mean if I did not know any better and Stonewall with its huge reputation and brand came in and told me it was the law, I'd believe them!

It's Stonewalls deliberate misrepresentation of the law that's the problem

Someone else has phoned up the gym. Reception told them that it is the law!
They really are idiots aren't they?!

Well you would Norma except thanks to stonewall misrepresenting the law women only spaces are deemed transphobic

You can’t find a woman only gym when the definition of woman has been changed to include men can you?

That is such an interesting question Edge.
I wouldn't necessarily call myself a feminist, I am new to the fwr board. I have always had the same views on this matter though. I don't know if I gave the issue much thought before though.
Would be so interesting to hear if other people's views have changed over time.

Green I have some concrete that needs removing in the garden. Think I might see if I can use my head to get it up if I bang it hard enough.
I should just find a single sex gym if I dislike penis so much too!
3 women are totally on the woke bandwagon and the one man.

Is it 97 or 98 per cent of sexual assaults that are committed by penis-havers?

Over 98%. And 100% of rapes.

Ask them why male feelings are more important than female ones. Facebook comments, like Twitter, is a cesspit of stupid, though.

Norma, may I suggest you find a hard surface to hit your head against, it will be less painful that reading that tripe! I wonder why these people aren't arguing against 9 year old boys being banned from the female changing areas.

Lord grant me the serenity to accept transwomen in to women’s spaces, the courage to challenge men in women’s spaces and the wisdom to know the difference.

Go in with the privacy and dignity issue. It's not just about safety. We have the right to spaces free from males when we are getting changed.

And a Muslim lady who objects on religious grounds has been told religion should be about respect and inclusion. Noone will be looking at her anyway apparently! Oh My God!