Caster Semenya has lost appeal

She is a pretty unusual case, she was raised female and only when her periods didn't start was there indication of what was to come. The chromosomal testing was a shock to her and her family, I know someone who is a personal friend.

This is a young person who is neither one thing or another, not straightforward at all. It's unlikely to occur here in the U.K. now as we would test a baby who had ambiguous genitalia these days whereas I believe her parents were reassured she was female but unusual.

This is the right decision. Caster has known about this since they were a teenager, according to their coach they’ve used male pronouns all their life. Who knows. But I don’t think it’s Caster that’s been had, it’s everyone else. The media spin on this is unbelievable, perhaps partly due to wanting to avoid racism claims- South Africa have claimed this is behind the objections to an XY athlete competing in the female category.

Semenya and Semenya's family, trainers and coaches etc have known for now over 10 years. Semenya was on a women's South Africa football team now I heard? Welcomed with open arms, perhaps there is a sporting advantage to having a male on a woman's team...

I did feel sorry for Semenya for the DSD condition and growing up in challenging circumstances (as do many others in SA) but not now, due to the lies and cheating and the fact that Semenya has a fulfilling relationship, family and is well-off.

If you look at the races and how Semenya would have faired against men in the 800m you can see why Semenya chose to race as a woman, against women, who are biologically female.

Correction to the above - it wasn't the raisin Wikipedia editor who added the transgender bit, it was someone else anonymous all of whose edits are on American LGBT, intersex, or women topics. Still, the raisin thing was fantastic. Check your sources, people! Especially in anything LGTBQIAWTF-related... The fact that so few real publications can't bring themselves to admit that Semenya is male, like Schinegger, is appalling.

I always like to contrast the case of Erik Schinegger, who had a similar (or the same) condition.

Good article and interview here: Intersex skiing champion – who competed as a woman before discovering he was a man – becomes latest athlete to say transgender women should NOT compete in female events.

He was treated harshly, but he came to accept that it wasn't fair for him to have taken women's medals, and now opposes transwomen in female sport.

Interestingly his Wikipedia page calls him "transgender" (added by an anonymous editor without comment some time ago). I guess from the current formal definition he is - he was "assigned female at birth", wrongly, and now "identifies as male". Not sure he'd call himself that.

Just checking up on that editor. Might not be the most reliable source - their only other edit was to "raisin" the same day - where it was recorded that they could also be laid by pigeons.

Getting sidetracked...

Harry, Semenya has a DSD that can only be present in males. Semenya is a male with a DSD, not a female with a DSD.
That’s why I’m so pissed. I’ve been defending her for years believing that she was female. She isn’t, and has no place competing against women.

From the ruling, "The Swiss court also said that Semenya’s “guarantee of human dignity” was not undermined in agreeing that an athlete’s biological characteristics may supersede a person’s gender identity to protect fair competition."

6th place was Lynsey Sharp. That’s the bronze medal she was denied.

HarryHarry1 you’ve been led to believe that because of poor reporting in the media. Semenya has 5 alpha reductase deficiency, found out in 2009, and has internal testes. The testosterone levels are normal for a male, not “unusually high for a female”.

I would also note that I don’t think Semenya should be allowed to compete in any women’s sport, be that the 200m as attempted, or a women’s football team as attempted.

None of the three medal winners of the women's 800 meter medal winners in Brazil's 2016 Olympics were female. Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Nyairera Wambui have an intersex conditions. All three have XY chromosomes. I can't speak to whether or not the winners knew they cheated, but they were males in a women's race.

I feel sorry for the three women in 4th, 5th and 6th place.

I thought she was under the impression that she was biologically female since birth and only recently found out she had DSD? If so, I’m inclined to say let her compete as a woman, since that’s what she always believed she was, and what she is, externally at least. If her condition has occurred naturally, then it’s not an “unfair” advantage, any more than being naturally taller than average is. We don’t penalize Michael Phelps for having a condition that makes him a better swimmer, do we? It is not the same as being a transwoman who is biologically male. She is a woman with an unusual condition, that’s all. Or is she?

Having read all your comments I suspect there’s more to it than I previously thought.

Good. I’m still pissed that I got banned from a feminist fitness page for commenting that I felt really gaslit after spending years defending Semenya against what I believed to be criticisms levied against her for not performing femininity. I am still seriously pissed that the sporting press is STILL not being upfront that Semenya is male. And obviously still pissed that feminist (sporting) spaces are shutting down women’s feelings on male participation in women’s sports.

Semenya has known this for years, yet has continued to compete in the women’s competitions, winning medals, prize money, sponsorship that might have otherwise gone to someone else.

And having watched interviews with Caster, Caster only calls themself a woman on the track, dismissing girls as 'silly'.

The physiology of people born with Y chromosomes differs substantially from that of people born without Y chromosomes; only the latter should be allowed to compete in women's categories of sport.

Absolutely this. Anything else is nonsense.

The diagnosis of 46XY and 5 alpha reductase deficiency was made in 2009, around the age of 18-19 or so, so Semenya spent 10 years competing fully in the knowledge of biological male advantage and was happy to win medals and money. It wasn’t like it was revealed after all that, it was before. Why should anyone feel sorry for Semenya? If the correct decision had been made in 2009 then none of the success Semenya achieved would have been allowed, so it worked out well considering. Other women have missed out, though, including Lynsey Sharp who was vilified and missed out on a medal in 2016, despite being correct.

www.letsrun.com/news/2019/05/what-no-one-is-telling-you-about-caster-semenya-she-has-xy-chromosomes/

This article is a good description of the entire Caster Semenya controversy.

My personal opinion is that she should not be allowed to compete in the women's category in Tokyo, whether she reduces her testosterone level or not. She is not a woman.

I do feel sorry for her in that she lived and began in sport not knowing of her DSD but this is the right decision as she has a clear advantage over other competitors.

Semenya has know her XY status since at least 2009 - there is evidence that she was subject to sex testing after she won the world championships that year.

I don't agree with caringcarer. The categories are women and men, not low and high testosterone levels and they should remain that way.

It is unfortunate for Caster Semenya that she lives in a country where intersex conditions are not diagnosed at birth. If her (I'm using the pronouns I think she likes out of courtesy) condition had been diagnosed, then she would never have been competing in women's competitions at all.

The physiology of people born with Y chromosomes differs substantially from that of people born without Y chromosomes; only the latter should be allowed to compete in women's categories of sport.

It is tough on a few individuals, but has to be so in order to be fair to many. Just as categories in paralympics, or weight divisions, or age categories are exclusive of some athletes, so must women's categories be exclusive of those who are male.

Semenya has known this for years

Oh, I thought it had all only been realised after questions were raised quite recently. When it all started up in the press I did feel very sorry for her, and to have her DSD dragged out in the press.

Pardon me, I just found a newspaper article which I hope is correct that references an XY variant.

Is this decision definitely about biology, and biologically-based advantages?

Caster should not be allowed to compete.

However, it is beyond ridiculous that if Caster declared themself to be a trans woman, that they would suddenly be allowed to compete.

Caster should not be allowed to compete in the women’s 800m category regardless of suppressing current testosterone levels because of all the other advantages that male biology has brought Caster and continues to provide. Semenya has 5 alpha reductase deficiency, a condition that only affects males. Semenya has all of the advantages of male puberty, plus an increase in VO2max, a male pelvis to improve running gait, and Semenya has never had to deal with a period, either in training or in competition. Semenya has known this for years, yet has continued to compete in the women’s competitions, winning medals, prize money, sponsorship that might have otherwise gone to someone else. I don’t feel sorry for Semenya, I feel sorry for those women who have missed out.