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Original poster

Caster Semenya has lost appeal

506 replies

Mumsnut · 08/09/2020 23:16

Hard on Semenya, but the right outcome overall I think

OP posts:
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5
PurpleHoodie · 09/09/2020 09:19

What Milly said.

MillyMollyFarmer · 09/09/2020 09:18

So, what do you guys think if a biological male has lower testosterone level than the average male decide it is only fair he should compete with women. Would that be ok?

No, of course not. No male should be in female sports. The end.

PronounssheRa · 09/09/2020 09:18

@ThousandsAreSailing

I too had a great deal of sympathy for CS until I saw an interview and it does appear that CS only identifies as a woman for sport and that males with this disorder are sought to take part in female competition
I may have watched the same interview, castor did seem to view women as 'other'.

I was also hugely sympathetic to castor, until I realised that castor and the team knew castor was biologically male, and had known for many years, but still chose to compete against women

Lua · 09/09/2020 09:17

So, what do you guys think if a biological male has lower testosterone level than the average male decide it is only fair he should compete with women. Would that be ok?

Just curious, because it seems like a good rule should be applicable both ways?

Annasgirl · 09/09/2020 09:14

@NotBadConsidering

Caster should not be allowed to compete in the women’s 800m category regardless of suppressing current testosterone levels because of all the other advantages that male biology has brought Caster and continues to provide. Semenya has 5 alpha reductase deficiency, a condition that only affects males. Semenya has all of the advantages of male puberty, plus an increase in VO2max, a male pelvis to improve running gait, and Semenya has never had to deal with a period, either in training or in competition. Semenya has known this for years, yet has continued to compete in the women’s competitions, winning medals, prize money, sponsorship that might have otherwise gone to someone else. I don’t feel sorry for Semenya, I feel sorry for those women who have missed out.
This is all there is to say.
PurpleHoodie · 09/09/2020 09:07

queenofknives

I think there was a very effective PR spin that encouraged people to feel very sorry for CS and believe CS was a female with a DSD rather than a male. Must have been so frustrating for women athletes who knew what was really going on.

Now everyone knows why racist, women hating genderist institutions and groups have insisted on #nodebate

i.e Silence

PurpleHoodie · 09/09/2020 09:04

Interesting interviews indeed Thousands.

Comes across as an absolute (insert rude word).

Milly Yes.

BovaryX · 09/09/2020 09:01

@Delphinium20

None of the three medal winners of the women's 800 meter medal winners in Brazil's 2016 Olympics were female. Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Nyairera Wambui have an intersex conditions. All three have XY chromosomes. I can't speak to whether or not the winners knew they cheated, but they were males in a women's race.

I feel sorry for the three women in 4th, 5th and 6th place.

Delphinium As PP have said, I had no idea how common this is in women's sports. It is shocking and needs to be robustly resisted.
queenofknives · 09/09/2020 09:01

I think there was a very effective PR spin that encouraged people to feel very sorry for CS and believe CS was a female with a DSD rather than a male. Must have been so frustrating for women athletes who knew what was really going on.

Twitter is full of dunderheads, I wouldn't pay any attention to their nonsense.

ThousandsAreSailing · 09/09/2020 08:57

I too had a great deal of sympathy for CS until I saw an interview and it does appear that CS only identifies as a woman for sport and that males with this disorder are sought to take part in female competition

MillyMollyFarmer · 09/09/2020 08:57

Doyoumind That’s because Twitter is full of dumb arses. It’s not the place to go for reasonable logical factual conversations.

PurpleHoodie · 09/09/2020 08:56

....males competing AGAINST females

PurpleHoodie · 09/09/2020 08:55

justanother

Both.

Put simply, the athletes, coaches and team (and national athletics leaders) KNOW these are males competing and females - in the female categories.

There were some links posted on here a while ago to articles and at least one documentary.

NotBadConsidering · 09/09/2020 08:54

CAIS is probably over represented at the Olympics. A study of the Atlanta games found it was present in 1:1000 athletes in women’s competition. The incidence of CAIS is 1:20,000 in the general population. It likely confers an advantage, probably skeletal, and I personally think it’s enough of an advantage that it needs to be looked at, because the study from Atlanta only gave small numbers.

zafferana · 09/09/2020 08:53

@NotBadConsidering

Caster should not be allowed to compete in the women’s 800m category regardless of suppressing current testosterone levels because of all the other advantages that male biology has brought Caster and continues to provide. Semenya has 5 alpha reductase deficiency, a condition that only affects males. Semenya has all of the advantages of male puberty, plus an increase in VO2max, a male pelvis to improve running gait, and Semenya has never had to deal with a period, either in training or in competition. Semenya has known this for years, yet has continued to compete in the women’s competitions, winning medals, prize money, sponsorship that might have otherwise gone to someone else. I don’t feel sorry for Semenya, I feel sorry for those women who have missed out.
Me too! 'She' should never have been allowed to compete as a female.
justanotherneighinparadise · 09/09/2020 08:50

*rising

Doyoumind · 09/09/2020 08:50

I've just been having a look on twitter and the response is overwhelmingly the view that Caster is biologically female with slightly higher testosterone than other females and this decision is unfair. There is no understanding or acceptance that Caster is biologically male.

justanotherneighinparadise · 09/09/2020 08:49

@PurpleHoodie

03:52 Delphinium20

None of the three medal winners of the women's 800 meter medal winners in Brazil's 2016 Olympics were female. Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Nyairera Wambui have an intersex conditions. All three have XY chromosomes. I can't speak to whether or not the winners knew they cheated, but they were males in a women's race.

I feel sorry for the three women in 4th, 5th and 6th place.

This is a very important post from Delphinium

Caster, like many other male athletes competing in female categories, have known for years/all their lives that they are male. So have/do their coaching teams. And their national team leaders.

They've tried to keep that fact away from the public. Or stir up hate towards people who point it out.

They know they are male.

It's the world of PR and Spin.

Let's always adjust the medal rankings and celebrate those women and girls who unfairly get awarded 2nd/3rd....6th, 7th place etc.

My god I had no idea it was so common! Are these trainers deliberately seeking these athletes out or are they just riding to the top due to the advantage their testosterone gives them?
NecessaryScene1 · 09/09/2020 08:49

all the variations of DSDs are really complicated

Would be far less complicated if there wasn't a concerted drive by so many gender ideology organisations, and apparently collaborating media, to try to confuse the issue.

There are only probably about half a dozen common DSDs, and they can all be explained clearly and mostly accurately in a couple of sentences. (Spoiler - they're not a sex/gender spectrum).

KatVonlabonk · 09/09/2020 08:43

This is incorrect, CAIS is not the condition Semenya has, it's 5ARD.

Thanks, I wasn't sure, all the variations of DSDs are really complicated

PurpleHoodie · 09/09/2020 08:42

It's not racism to point out a black man is a man. A white man is a man. A brown man is a man.

SerenityNowwwww · 09/09/2020 08:40

Their life - and their wife/kids life’s - must be in a right old turmoil now. It’s taken a long time to get here though, this has been going on for such a long time.

I’m amazed that (some of) twitter has declared it ‘racism’.

PurpleHoodie · 09/09/2020 08:38

See also....the current Chinese women's running teams.

American High School/Collegiate teams.

Rugby.

Cycling.

Call it out every time.

WiserOlder · 09/09/2020 08:36

@Chloemol

She has he opportunity to take part, if she takes medication to suppress the testosterone, which is obviously much higher than found in a female , and gives her a very big advantage, she refuses to do this, so in my opinion it’s her choice not to take part
Yes, she used her advantage
PurpleHoodie · 09/09/2020 08:34

03:52 Delphinium20

None of the three medal winners of the women's 800 meter medal winners in Brazil's 2016 Olympics were female. Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Nyairera Wambui have an intersex conditions. All three have XY chromosomes. I can't speak to whether or not the winners knew they cheated, but they were males in a women's race.

I feel sorry for the three women in 4th, 5th and 6th place.

This is a very important post from Delphinium

Caster, like many other male athletes competing in female categories, have known for years/all their lives that they are male. So have/do their coaching teams. And their national team leaders.

They've tried to keep that fact away from the public. Or stir up hate towards people who point it out.

They know they are male.

It's the world of PR and Spin.

Let's always adjust the medal rankings and celebrate those women and girls who unfairly get awarded 2nd/3rd....6th, 7th place etc.