Caster Semenya has lost appeal

TRAs certainly have a thing about accusations of racism. It suits them to argue that you either swallow genderist ideology whole, or you're a white supremacist. That's racist in itself because it's denying agency to anyone who isn't white.

Yes.

Great post Aunty

The racism inherent in the genderist movement is sickening.

There are scores of these comments, saying that Semenya is female and that 'white women' are trying to drag Semenya down. Posts about 'whining' and 'crying' and 'complaining' white women. It's weird - I'm sure these people think they're ultra-progressive, but they're actively stirring up racial tensions, and attacking a particular group of women for their skin colour. Plus, aren't black women also losing out to Semenya?

TRAs certainly have a thing about accusations of racism. It suits them to argue that you either swallow genderist ideology whole, or you're a white supremacist. That's racist in itself because it's denying agency to anyone who isn't white.

I’m sure it was Sharon Davis who has talked about sport talent scouts who actively look for outlying (female) athletes - for DSD / advantageous conditions. CS is not the only (recent) current runner with a question mark hanging over their biology.

When national prestige and huge £ comes into play, any advantage is taken. Just think how many top flight tennis players are affected with heart conditions / asthma... ^^

The lines between drugs / masking agents / therapies / medically prescribed drugs ... what’s the difference? One is legal, the other illegal - at a given point in time. DSD type conditions are just another avenue to exploit.

So if you have a weak governing body, a country turning a blind eye, a coach willing to pump the athlete full of drugs and suppress information, topped by a very focussed motivated athlete - there you have it. Everyone’s a winner, earning £££ & adulation.

I’m not sure why anyone is surprised by this. Both the athletes taking the offered advantage and the international bodies being so weak. What does surprise me is the lack of investigation from third parties and ability to publish any investigations. Where’s the heavy weight investigative journos ( Pilger types)? Hat’s off to anyone who has questioned this, given the self employed nature of most journalists

I long to see a big name male athlete take a public stand - go on, I dare you. Self id. Play in a big £ televised tournament. Golf, tennis, football, anything. I imagine behind closed doors they’re in agreement with Sharron Davis but are too spineless to put their cushy commentating jobs / consultancy’s on the line.

Let's not hide, or silence the fact that Castor is NOT the only male competing in elite athletics under the guise of being female.

The Olympics are tainted.

Forget hormone tests as a starting point.

ALL single-sex competitions need to begin with the premise of sex-testing. A easily conducted test.

If her condition has occurred naturally, then it’s not an “unfair” advantage, any more than being naturally taller than average is.

Of course having extra testosterone is an unfair advantage, that's why testosterone injections and testosterone boosting supplements are all banned.

I think you are muddling up unfair advantage and cheating. She had a naturally occurring unfair advantage. If there was a time that she didn't know it was because she is biologically male, it wasn't cheating. She knows now, and I really feel for her, but I feel more for women robbed of victories because they were competiting against somebody with an unfair advantage, one that they couldn't match.

A male black athlete is a male black athlete.

Nothing racist, sexist, homophobic, ageist in pointing it out.

I have immense sympathy for Semenya and the confusion around sexual development. It must have been very hard.

That does not detract from the fact that women lost out on medals and had their athletics careers ruined.

The "racism" and "homophobic" angle makes them look stupid.

Especially when gay/bi, and black and brown women and men, start speaking out and pointing to the bleedin' obvious.

The racism inherent in the genderist movement is sickening.

See for example: White, genderist, racist Uni. students in London trying to tear apart black lead, grassroots women's collectives in South London.

But a surgeon performed genital surgery - and they didn’t question, wonder, confer with colleagues?

I’m not aware of any surgery? Not sure there would be any need.

Those people tweeting that nonsense have seen and been tweeted the facts and still ignore it. It would ruin their entire woke argument if they had to accept caster isn’t female or the c word. They’re relying on the racism angle to earn themselves cookies for being an ally. Let them make fools of themselves. Twitter isn’t real life.

I believe the media has been complicit in hiding the true facts about this and other cases.

This. So very much.

Lua you are very misinformed.

It gives misogynists a thrill I bet to argue that women who oppose CS and other intersex athletes inclusion are just sore losers/racists etc.

My 16 year old could cream me in any physical activity - even at my peak I couldn’t ourtun, our wrestle or out jump him. I could probably do a higher high jump but the ratbag even excels at javelin (which I was very good at) and long distance running.

I can only get points from him if we spar - that’s only because my MA discipline is different and in my opinion, superior to his (more attack than Defense) but I haven’t explained that to him (he just thinks I am a crazy woman).

I’ve said it before, but the racism is in the South African health system. If Semenya had grown up white in an affluent suburb of Cape Town, no way would this not have been diagnosed much sooner. Being poor and black and having limited access to health services meant Semenya got a long way before a diagnosis was made.

Yes, NotBad. In fact, for even more clarity:

They are mediocre males denying the most extraordinary women medals.

There is actually nothing particularly special about CS's athletic ability: CS's times are not elite for someone with all the male advantages at their disposal.

On the boys vs women website I linked, it has under 16 boys vs the women’s 800m Olympic final, of which the medalists were all XY. All the boys would have beaten them.

boysvswomen.com/#/

They are mediocre males denying women medals.

Then others have posted photos of the silver, bronze and 4th place runners against them and blows that theory out of the water.

This is causing some confusion on Twitter. Some people still think Semenya is a 'cis' (e.g. female) woman and that the decision is horribly racist.

I remember reading an article about a female Olympic skier with a similar issue who was medically ‘diagnosed’ as male in middle age.

He (Erik Schinegger) gave back his medals and seemed quite apologetic (and relieved) and went off to have a wife and child.

He would agree with this ruling (by his past comments).

It might have been Caster's choice to continue with it publicly, but I still think it's a very difficult way to grow up, find your way out of your old life by being good at sports, but have your identity in question all the time, by yourself and others. For any child or teen that will be difficult, and I can have sympathy for actions that were made later even if I agree that they were wrong.

I hope that it won't happen so much in the future now that testing for DSDs will be better worldwide, I hope, given increased knowledge now.

It is much more than just the levels of testosterone, but those additional benefits are driven by having the testosterone in the first place, which does come from having the specific gene normally on the Y chromosome. It's not just an extraordinary characteristic that a female has. Yes, all winning athletes will have extraordinary characteristics in some ways - genetic advantages - but not in ways that sports divides the competition into. That's the issue.

I don't know if there are ways of measuring how much male puberty has taken place, so that those with partial or complete androgen insensitivity could still compete. I think that some evidence has shown that they may still have advantages - even those with complete insensitivity - but I am not sure. It's those cases that I think are more of a grey area, and I would have sympathy with those who are unable to compete as a result (even though I suspect that might end up being the correct decision, if there are some advantages to having the gene, even with total insensitivity).

When we say "it's not about testosterone levels", we mean it's not about a male person's current testosterone levels. Rather, it's the fact that, at puberty, which was fuelled by high levels of testosterone, they virilisaled and therefore achieved enormous advantages over female athletes which can never be reversed.

There is actually nothing particularly special about CS's athletic ability: CS's times are not elite for someone with all the male advantages at their disposal.

Lua
It's sex not gender that has been the divider on sport.
I think you'll find that even elite female athletes - in certain sports - would be beaten by relatively ordinary men. I saw some equivalent times for running posted here once, even exceptional women runners would be beaten by a half decent amateur club male runner.
Biology confers difference. Different physiology, different lung capacity, different bone density, different muscle mass. Testosterone levels are a part of that, but it's really what testosterone contributes to in male puberty that makes the difference, not just the level of that hormone in the body.