Don't understand how someone can be transgender? This man explains it all!

Where are the female equivalents?

Google is your friend. I've posted several links to late transitioning female to male.

These are married heterosexual women who transitioned. On the first link you need to scroll to the second case study. That couple have 3 children.

www.inquirer.com/philly/health/When-one-spouse-changes-gender-can-the-marriage-be-saved.html

www.thecut.com/2016/01/what-its-like-when-your-wife-becomes-your-husband.html

Do try to keep up, Quaagars. Nobody has said transmen don't exist, or even that older transmen don't exist (everyone's heard of Stephen Whittle). But since the majority of children identifying as trans are now female, you'd expect to see an increase in late transitioning women now that it's more acceptable to do so, wouldn't you?

Don't you find it a bit odd that the majority of 'trans children' are female, but the majority of late transitioners are male? And many of these men have been in heterosexual relationships for years and fathered children. Where are the female equivalents?

Again, what has whether they've got children or not got to do with anything?
Are they not as trans, or not really trans if they don't have children?

[quote DidoLamenting]Trans men's stories.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/20/feature/crossing-the-divide-do-men-really-have-it-easier-these-transgender-guys-found-the-truth-was-more-complex/[/quote]
I've skimmed through those, and none of them appear to be late-transitioning heterosexual women with children.

First one, transitioned aged about 40, but no partner of either sex or children are mentioned. So could fit this description, but could also have been a lesbian with no children.

Second one was a lesbian before transition.

Third and fourth transitioned in their mid 20s, so not really late transitioning. Fourth one also has a girlfriend, so another lesbian pre-transition.

Where are the transman equivalents of Caitlyn Jenner, Jane Fae, Debbie Hayton? The ones who are married to men, have children, and then when in their 40s or later 'realise' that they are really men?

Trans men's stories.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/20/feature/crossing-the-divide-do-men-really-have-it-easier-these-transgender-guys-found-the-truth-was-more-complex/

There are photographs here of trans men aged 50 plus. It's not obvious at what age they transitioned.

the females who would have transitioned had it been a 'thing' when we were young - a lot of us are on MN

I can't quite put my finger on why but there's something just a bit arrogant about that comment.

www.tosurviveonthisshore.com/portraits

www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/02/24/photos-transgender-elders-show-us-meaning-survival

Of course we always knew there a very tiny minority of what were called transsexuals who had surgery & took hormones & did everything humanely possible to present as the opposite sex

But that’s not what trans means now according to stonewall

Trans is anyone who says they are no matter how they present

On the contrary: the concept of transsexualism was invented to explain the existence of homosexual 'inverts'. The history of the phenomenon is a fascinating insight into the homophobia and misogyny of the medical profession.

People who rail against sex-role stereotypes have been around forever, but to call them trans is to view history through the blinkered lens of twenty-first century sexism.

the females who would have transitioned had it been a 'thing' when we were young - a lot of us are on MN. We just don't count, because we don't deny biology and we recognise our feelings about what it means to be a woman are informed by a lifetime immersed in a sexist culture

Being trans has always "been a thing" though. It just wasn't something we knew much about a few decades ago if we were not trans (talking about say the 80s here)
You talk as if trans people just suddenly popped into existence recently.
They've always been there.
We just know more about being trans now, more aware.

Transwidowers are rare, but they exist - my brother was one. There were many similarities between his experience and the transwidow experience, though of course some big differences too (rooted in the differing typical profiles of female versus male transitioners).

As for where all the late-transitioning transmen are - the females who would have transitioned had it been a 'thing' when we were young - a lot of us are on MN. We just don't count, because we don't deny biology and we recognise our feelings about what it means to be a woman are informed by a lifetime immersed in a sexist culture.

Has anyone ever done a study about gender identity? How many people think they have it, whether it is truly unrelated to the sex of the body one has or not and so on.

Given that it is entered into laws in some countries it would be of some interest to find out how many people actually possess it, though of course it might be impossible to measure something so 'ephemeral.'

Also, just because someone hasn't come across middle aged trans men, or haven't seen them for themselves, that means there can't be any?

Where are all the trans widowers? Why haven't we heard their stories? Do they have similar experiences to trans widows?

Here's another man that will probably get more attention when he says this than a woman but at least he's saying it

twitter.com/lbc/status/1301887036111179777?s=21

Quaagers, it's when we get these breaking news headlines in the gutter press (saw a FB post on just that today) saying, "A Man had Given Birth!" that we need to take a deep breath and just quietly utter, nope. Didn't happen

Yes, fair enough, it's a trans man, not a biological man.
That;s not what I was referring to though, I was commenting on someone saying they stopped and thought when PP said where all the middle aged trans men with children?
Me - what has whether or not they've got children got to do with anything?
Also, just because someone hasn't come across middle aged trans men, or haven't seen them for themselves, that means there can't be any?
How does that work?
There'll be plenty of trans men just quietly living their lives, just because I don't know them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Quaagers, it's when we get these breaking news headlines in the gutter press (saw a FB post on just that today) saying, "A Man had Given Birth!" that we need to take a deep breath and just quietly utter, nope. Didn't happen.

What's the fact a trans man may or not have children got to do with anything, though?
Plenty of trans men around, whether they have kids or not is neither here nor there.

The best question I have heard on this was when Posy Parker asked,
So where are all the middle aged women with children transitioning to men?

from GI Joe to Barbie, that should read.

He's mixing up sex and gender which makes it very hard to make sense of what he's trying to say. Other than 'I don't understand it'.

The only times I've ever 'felt like a woman' have either involved biology such as during pregnancy and breastfeeding or social norms and expectations of me based on that biology (formerly known as 'gender') that we used to just called sexism.

But what has that got to do with the concept of a 'gender identity' - an undefinable, indescribable sense of where one lies on the jelly baby scale of masculinity and femininity for GI Joe to Barbie doll? Because gender is nothing to do with sex which seems to be one thing everyone agrees on*.

*For clarification, I think that when proponents of genderism talk about gender this is a shorthand and they actually mean gender identity. As with a lot of this subject though, it can be confusing but I'm sure someone will correct me if they feel I'm wrong

I believe there is a consciousness, which enlivens the body; which gives the body life. According to Vedanta which is indeed an unprovable philosophy the self is not the body, and can never be. That is the foundation of the teaching, which I have practiced for 45 years with good results, so unlikely to change now!

I believe that all aspects of personality, including "gender" feelings, are all superimpositions on consciousness, which is free from all attributes. But it's much too far reaching, and boring for most, to go into it in detail here!

I just won't be told that my body is my self, as it isn't. Neither of us can prove our point of view.

While we can all agree that humans (and most of the rest of the animal kingdom) are split into a reproductive binary - the concepts of "female" and "male" are entirely human creations.

Of course it makes evolutionary sense that we would quickly be able to observe and categorise ourselves into two reproductive classes. And it follows that we have created words for those two categories (female/male, woman/man). But that's all we can say. The idea that we are born with an inner sense of our sex (outside of any external influence) is entirely speculative. There's no evidence for that whatsoever.

In fact the evidence would more be to the contrary. We know that some societies have a "third gender" or "third sex" which is (often in a very homophobic way) primarily used for men and women who don't fit societal expectations of their sex. And we know that people in these societies often strongly identify with that third gender/sex.

If people in different societies think about sex/gender in different ways then it suggests gender identity is down to social conditioning, not some inner essence.

I can imagine it, but that doesn't necessarily translate to thinking it is a healthy way to think.

When I was young I had quite a serious accident, long time in hospital, physio, rehab etc. I remember having a strong sense that this crap, broken body wasn't the real me. However, the medical team saw me talking like this as a red flag for quite serious mental health problems, and they added some counselling to my treatment. I can see with hindsight that it was a barrier to me accepting the situation and fully engaging with help. I now feel no shame about certain physical limitations I have as I see the recovery as a formative part of who I am. Your life and body forms you, it isn't separate.

I've read interviews with Stephen Hawkins which says similar. He couldn't live with regrets and what ifs, he has his life and his body and that is his reality. To have that kind of strength is genuinely good mental health and it makes no sense to me to promote the opposite (I feel this was about things like plastic surgery as well, not just gender).

As a young woman I was very interested in the nature and essence of the self, partly due to suffering low self esteem due to witnessing my dad's psychological abuse of my mother, partly as a result of studying psychology. I experimented with drugs (including ketamine - once and never again) in an attempt to find my own answer to the question "what in the self is enduring and not affected by brain chemistry". My answer: a tiny spark. I did not feel like a woman in a k hole.