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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Funded by the US religious far right...

162 replies

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 11:07

My son has completely bought into the TRA agenda and firmly believes that UK based pro women organisations are funded by the US religious far right - which is the current metaphorical stick with which to beat his t*y mother - I should be careful of what I support apparently.

He's seen the accounts and the receipts online (apparently 🙄) although he couldn't find them to show me when he looked...

Is there anything irrefutable (preferably independent) i can show him to prove otherwise?

Thanks

OP posts:
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:37

Interesting that he thinks women have zero capability of thinking for themselves, and can seemingly only form opinions based on politically funded propaganda. If he actually wanted to apply his own critical thinking rather than (ironically) being brainwashed to think certain untruths by what he reads online etc; he would probably see that a lot of women are not actually part of any organisation, and are individuals who are passionate about it based on their experiences, concerns and worries for the future.

It's because we all congregate in the MN echo chamber, whatever our affiliation or none, and we're only reading one side of the story and if we used our own critical thinking skills, then we'd realise we were being manipulated.

Oh, the irony...

OP posts:
SonEtLumiere · 05/09/2020 12:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MichelleofzeResistance · 05/09/2020 12:35

The most frustrating thing is that indont think he actually believes any of it, he just feels its the right thing to champion.

Yes. Facts optional: he likes the feelz of it, so don't mess up him expressing himself with facts that get in the way.

There's a lot of it about. Boris and Cummings for example, and a Castle that should have gone to specsavers. But it is lazy, stupid, brainwashed nutjobbery. Like many fashions, suddenly it's going to be the mark of a twit. And I will be happier to see the back of this one than I was to see the back of vuvuzelas.

xxyzz · 05/09/2020 12:34

OP - Disclaimer: not read these links, but I know I've certainly read plenty of articles in the past pointing out that the TRA movement is funded by the far right. Here are some examples:

medium.com/@sue.donym1984/a-republican-billionaire-is-funding-the-trans-movement-and-conversion-therapy-junk-science-c0a824c3fb96

www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2020/01/the-billionaires-behind-the-lgbt-movement

So two can play at your son's game. Rich right-wing Americans are clearly supporting TRAs - does he have a problem with that?

Or is he OK with right-wing support when it supports some things he already likes?

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:33

Given that a large number of gender critical women are firmly from the left (e.g. Bea Campbell, Julie Bindel, Joan Smith, Kiri Tunks, Linda Bellos, Karen Ingala Smith and many more), how likely is it that they would be taking funding from American religious far right groups? It would make no sense.

I know, it's a shame isn't it that our hatred and bigotry have led us down this path...

(His response).

I would also ask him if he’s adamant that he’s right and this whole movement to protect women’s rights IS being funded by the religious far right, does that mean the protection of women’s rights is automatically wrong?

But if we're not protecting all women's rights, and we're prepared to take money from these sources, then we lose all credibility (apparently).

Maybe tell him that you identify as your younger self - a single, childless woman with the world at your feet and possibilities, oh possibilities...

That's just cruel mockery and fuelled by hate.

Also ask him to explain the ‘erasure of identity’. What exactly does that mean (because I don’t understand) and surely by companies not using the word ‘woman’ than this is that surely? Again - why and who benefits?

No, I don't think he understands either. I just get a nonsense rehash of all his other arguments with words like 'identity, 'respect' and 'triggering' thrown in for good measure.

So they can dish out insults? That’s kind...

Bigots don't deserve kindness...

OP posts:
xxyzz · 05/09/2020 12:28

@DancelikeEmmaGoldman

He replied with a link to an Independent article about a woman who changed her position after her nephew 'transitioned' - nothing of substance, just "be nice".

My nephew “transitioned”. I’m kind to him because he’s family and I want him to be happy. Still don’t believe he’s a woman, even when he sits at the table and calls feminists TERFs.

Why are you being kind to him, when he is being so rude to you and other women?

Sorry for the derail, but was quite shocked at that. We women spend too much time being kind even when men are rude to us.

Floralbean · 05/09/2020 12:27

Interesting that he thinks women have zero capability of thinking for themselves, and can seemingly only form opinions based on politically funded propaganda. If he actually wanted to apply his own critical thinking rather than (ironically) being brainwashed to think certain untruths by what he reads online etc; he would probably see that a lot of women are not actually part of any organisation, and are individuals who are passionate about it based on their experiences, concerns and worries for the future.

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:25

xxyzz

I've done all of that (bar turn off the internet!)

When he hits upon something he can't explain, that's when the names, the flouncing and the "just be nice" start.

It's pointless trying to explain anything or open up a debate.

He's firmly entrenched.

OP posts:
SerenityNowwwww · 05/09/2020 12:25

So they can dish out insults? That’s kind...

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 05/09/2020 12:23

He replied with a link to an Independent article about a woman who changed her position after her nephew 'transitioned' - nothing of substance, just "be nice".

My nephew “transitioned”. I’m kind to him because he’s family and I want him to be happy. Still don’t believe he’s a woman, even when he sits at the table and calls feminists TERFs.

SerenityNowwwww · 05/09/2020 12:23

Maybe tell him that you identify as your younger self - a single, childless woman with the world at your feet and possibilities, oh possibilities...

Also ask him to explain the ‘erasure of identity’. What exactly does that mean (because I don’t understand) and surely by companies not using the word ‘woman’ than this is that surely? Again - why and who benefits?

NotBadConsidering · 05/09/2020 12:23

I would also ask him if he’s adamant that he’s right and this whole movement to protect women’s rights IS being funded by the religious far right, does that mean the protection of women’s rights is automatically wrong?

RoyalCorgi · 05/09/2020 12:22

Given that a large number of gender critical women are firmly from the left (e.g. Bea Campbell, Julie Bindel, Joan Smith, Kiri Tunks, Linda Bellos, Karen Ingala Smith and many more), how likely is it that they would be taking funding from American religious far right groups? It would make no sense.

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:22

In terms of arguments, conversation starters and the like, you won't be able to give me anything I haven't already used which is why just wondered if there was something I could show him re the accounts that would that might cast doubt on other things he so firmly 'believes'.

OP posts:
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:20

Does he think dear alex Drummond is a woman just like you OP?

  • yes, if Alex Drummond says he is

And

  • who is he to deny Alex Drummond's experience of Alex Drummond?
OP posts:
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:19

And the whole 'I don't want to look/think about that because it interrupts me nicely believing in x' - oh get a fucking grip.

No patience for that kind of laziness and abnegation of responsibility at all in anyone past the age of eight. You might as well go around shouting the Tooth Fairy's real 'cos she is.

Is the basis of all my conversations with him on this matter.

The most frustrating thing is that indont think he actually believes any of it, he just feels its the right thing to champion.

He accepts that rights for women and ethnic minority groups have a long way to go and he accepts that thebadvancment of trans rights has far exceeded all other equal rights campaigns.

He can't quite make the connection though.

Or maybe he can but it doesnt sit right with the line he's supposed to toe...

He's at university too, which doesnt help 🙄

OP posts:
xxyzz · 05/09/2020 12:19

He is probably looking at US sites, and clearly, indisputably, Trump opposes trans rights so from that perspective, he will think that any narrative that isn't pro-unlimited trans rights is pro-Trump.

To understand the situation properly, he needs to free himself from a US-centric view and sources, and understand the concept of conflict of rights. Yes, trans people in the US are opposed by the far right, but so are women. It's not an either/or.

If it was my child, I would probably start by explaining that, because if he just reads a lot about Trumpian right-wing attacks on trans rights in the US, he'll just think you're being stupid or are really ill-informed or biased.

He needs to understand he's not wrong on that, but that women's rights are also under attack, and that some right-wing MRAs are using trans rights as a vehicle to attack women's rights. I'd also show him lots of examples of trans people who themselves are strongly on our side in the debate. So he can see it's not just you being a bigot, but that many trans people themselves do not find the onslaught on women's rights and the pushing of self-ID as helpful or in their own best interests.

Show him the many examples of high-profile left-wingers who are prominent examples of GC feminists, and ask if he thinks they have all suddenly become right wing.

And if none of that works, switch his internet off until his critical thinking skills have caught up with his surety of always being right!

Floisme · 05/09/2020 12:17

You could point out that his position - accepting something as a fact when he can produce no evidence - is the one that resembles a religion.

Kit19 · 05/09/2020 12:16

Does he think
Dear alex Drummond is a woman just like you OP?

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:16

Ask him - who benefits from this? Who constantly says ‘no debate’ and tried to shit down all conversations with threats. Who manages to get businesses to change policy and sack staff on their say so - really powerless then? What happens when women’s groups complain or protest (nothing but threats). And why does this happen?

I have.

All he knows is that, if someone says they 'identify' as something, he is prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but I'm old and closed minded.

Oh and they wouldn't have to issue threats if we werent trying to erase their identities.

He's got the TRA answer to everything.

OP posts:
SerenityNowwwww · 05/09/2020 12:15

Oppressed groups - again - big business support, flags and banners, a whole month (+++), companies with training (£££), people getting ‘cancelled’. Remind me again how it works because I’m confused.

Ask him how this stacks up with those with disabilities in society - how’s it all working out for their needs?

He needs a new hobbyhorse.

MichelleofzeResistance · 05/09/2020 12:14

(And not you OP, just patience now gone with all this.)

MichelleofzeResistance · 05/09/2020 12:14

Again: where's the evidence? What exactly is being funded?

And the whole 'I don't want to look/think about that because it interrupts me nicely believing in x' - oh get a fucking grip.

No patience for that kind of laziness and abnegation of responsibility at all in anyone past the age of eight. You might as well go around shouting the Tooth Fairy's real 'cos she is.

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:13

And don’t forget - ‘why would they lie?’ (‘They’ being the people who say this).

Lie?! Don't be ridiculous. 'They' are the most oppressed group. They' don't lie! 🙄

It's bigotted women who are duped into thinking the US religious far right are on our side who are lying. And too stupid to see that we are being manipulated in this way.

Or something like that...

OP posts:
andyoldlabour · 05/09/2020 12:12

If he alleges that they are funding you, then they will of course be funding him, because I assume he is not independent yet. Therefore suggest that if he doesn't like the "far right" funding, he is free to leave at any time.

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