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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Funded by the US religious far right...

162 replies

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 11:07

My son has completely bought into the TRA agenda and firmly believes that UK based pro women organisations are funded by the US religious far right - which is the current metaphorical stick with which to beat his t*y mother - I should be careful of what I support apparently.

He's seen the accounts and the receipts online (apparently 🙄) although he couldn't find them to show me when he looked...

Is there anything irrefutable (preferably independent) i can show him to prove otherwise?

Thanks

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Escapeplanning · 05/09/2020 13:50

mobile.twitter.com/mimmymum/status/1148639821113544704

This is mimmymum's smearing and speculation. It gets passed around as if it's factual evidence. If your son can find anything of substance here let us know.

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:48

He's 21.

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SerenityNowwwww · 05/09/2020 13:40

Sorry if I missed - how old is he?

MoltenLasagne · 05/09/2020 13:40

He's not trying to debate you, he's just ranting at you without showing you the respect of a) listening to your position, b) believing you're arguing in good faith, c) engaging with your arguments or d) providing any evidence to support his.

The only logical thing to do in this position is disengage, possibly with a comment that you're disappointed he has so little respect for you and women in general that he expects you to tolerate his diatribes with no right of reply.

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:38

Why does he think the religious far right would fund lesbian women or groups like LGB Alliance

He claims to have seen 'evidence' of it... but he couldn't find it when he looked. Or it was via a site that required a paid subscription. I suspect he's seen a screenshot of something on T

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PronounssheRa · 05/09/2020 13:35

Something to do with - whether someone is black or white is obvious and everyone can see it.

We can't randomly see each others genitals.

I think with that level of argument you're right, the best approach is 'that's nice dear'.

Aesopfable · 05/09/2020 13:30

Why does he think the religious far right would fund lesbian women or groups like LGB Alliance?

Escapeplanning · 05/09/2020 13:27

Two people who I have seen publishing evidence of right wing funding on Twitter are the ever silly mimmymum, and Christine Hart. Both are actually just speculating on the source of one or two anonymous donations. If your son is relying on this substance free smearing then 2 out of ten for gullibility.

Madvixen · 05/09/2020 13:23

OP, I agree with a previous poster that he's taken the US activist position on this issue. Can you signpost him to what happens with the real religious extremists? In Iran it's still punishable, by death, to be gay. But the state will pay for sex reassignment surgery. It may make him think a little

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:22

I'd probably just avoid arguing the topic with him, tbh. It's not worth getting into it when its so emotionally charged. Legislation, MPs, etc, are worth arguing with, not teenagers. Just my thoughts!

He's nearly 22. So the teenager ship has long sailed. But it's only really something that comes up when he tries to show me what a bigot I'm being.

But, yeah, you're right. I should probably just say, "that's nice dear..." and let him get on with it!

I think for an awful lot of the TRA crowd, this is the crux of it. It's a way to kick back against the older generation

I agree. I've told him that he and his peers might just want to 'be nice' but that is not the motivation of the middle aged men behind the movement.

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LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:18

Does he think white people can identify as black, and that society should accept them as such?

No because that's just offensive and totally different.

I forget what the 'different' rationale was but it made no sense.

Something to do with - whether someone is black or white is obvious and everyone can see it.

We can't randomly see each others genitals.

We can't see inside someone else's head.

I think it went long those lines.

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ArabellaScott · 05/09/2020 13:13

its the only cause where he can align himself with the opposite of my position

I think for an awful lot of the TRA crowd, this is the crux of it. It's a way to kick back against the older generation. So, for most, a phase. Smile.

I'd probably just avoid arguing the topic with him, tbh. It's not worth getting into it when its so emotionally charged. Legislation, MPs, etc, are worth arguing with, not teenagers. Just my thoughts!

PronounssheRa · 05/09/2020 13:08

All he knows is that, if someone says they 'identify' as something, he is prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but I'm old and closed minded

Does he think white people can identify as black, and that society should accept them as such?

Shedbuilder · 05/09/2020 13:07

Haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to say I have an adult former friend of many years who for unknown reasons has become a staunch trans ally. We knew each other for years. We had hours of philosophical and political discussion around our dining table. She knows I am a staunchly atheist Labour-inclined radical feminist —yet she still explains the fact that we haven't spoken for nearly three years on the fact that I am a puppet of the religious right. The TRA agenda is built on irrationality and dishonesty.

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:05

Apologies for the sources, they were literally the top two on google, hence my disclaimer!

No need to apologise! They're good enough for me. But that's the response I get if I try showing him something he didn't source himself.

His sources ae (equally) dubious Wink

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xxyzz · 05/09/2020 13:01

Apologies for the sources, they were literally the top two on google, hence my disclaimer!

But I have read this kind of thing from more reliable sources, but afraid I don't have that info at my fingertips, sorry.

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:53

Where is it coming from, is he strongly motivated to do 'the right thing'? Is he looking for a cause, and if so, why this one?

Where's it coming from?

Well, he used to agree with me but then he went to university.

I think its the only cause where he can align himself with the opposite of my position.

His peer group contains 80% LGBT+++

He 'identifies' as bisexual and I can't prove that he isn't because he's never had a boyfriend.

I also fall under the trans umbrella (according to the broad and loose definition) but, as I dont 'identify' as trans in any way, it just means it's not part of my identity and that's fine. But, for other people, it does and that should be respected.

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LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:49

In that case I'm not sure how you think we can help?

Well, tbf, all I asked for was any independent evidence of accounts, or whatever, that states where funding comes from.

I'm making no headway on the 'logic' side of things so, given that he believes he has seen evidence of receipts and accounts, I wondered if organisations are required to publish their actual accounts somewhere. Or at least details of funding sources.

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LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 12:46

Or is he OK with right-wing support when it supports some things he already likes?

Yup, I think that's about the size of it.

Oh and those are not reliable sources 🙄

SonEtLumiere

Tut, tut, are you saying all trans people are sex offenders and criminals? Shame on you. Transitioned males have very low testosterone and there is no evidence to suggest they retain an advantage in women's sports - evidence that suggests otherwise is flawed. And are you saying that women are weak? That's not very feminist of you! What about Boudicca?

I think that sums it up.

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DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 05/09/2020 12:46

Why are you being kind to him, when he is being so rude to you and other women?

Because I love his mother and don’t wish to distress her. I avoid his company because I find him irritating.

ArabellaScott · 05/09/2020 12:44

xxyy beat me to it - I was going to suggest he has a wee think about where all the funding is coming from for all the 'queer' groups that have taken over pride, etc.

Overall, though, I might try and take a step back from the 'debate' and look at the motivations behind it. I wonder if this is all a manifestation of anger from him? Where is it coming from, is he strongly motivated to do 'the right thing'? Is he looking for a cause, and if so, why this one?

I would look for common ground, and ways to keep communication channels open. I would probably avoid the hot button topic for the moment, and try to work on active listening.

*When he hits upon something he can't explain, that's when the names, the flouncing and the "just be nice" start.

It's pointless trying to explain anything or open up a debate.

He's firmly entrenched.*

This demonstrates that this is an emotional issue, not a logical one. The cognitive dissonance is there, but he's defending himself against what, on some level, he knows to be true. I'd just give him space to try and encourage him to relax a bit, maybe. Too easy to get into an arms race or power struggle.

Floisme · 05/09/2020 12:42

It's pointless trying to explain anything or open up a debate.

In that case I'm not sure how you think we can help?
If he won't debate or look for any evidence to support his view, and if he considers any information or argument you produce is tainted then it sounds like he himself has caught a form of religion.
Sorry but I'm out. Good luck.

NotBadConsidering · 05/09/2020 12:41

Given what you’ve replied with so far OP, I’d go the other route. I’d shake my head sadly and despair at the fact you thought you were raising a boy capable of supporting women like you and capable of critical thinking and it’s a massive disappointment to see how he’s turning out, incapable of either. Tell him you’ll discuss it again when he’s grown up a bit, because he sounds like he’s still in the petulant teenage phase and will never admit he’s wrong.

Then wander off looking sad, with the sad theme tune to the old Incredible Hulk tv show playing in your head.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/09/2020 12:38

All he knows is that, if someone says they 'identify' as something, he is prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but I'm old and closed minded.

You may like to share these articles with him:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/03/jessica-krug-white-professor-pretended-black

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/25/rachel-dolezal-not-going-stoop-apologise-grovel

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/nicholas-tufnell/biid-i-need-to-be-paralysed_b_2258104.html

www.timescolonist.com/news/local/viu-accused-of-failing-to-deal-with-fetishist-s-infantilism-1.23094374

MichelleofzeResistance · 05/09/2020 12:37

Bigots don't deserve kindness...

Yeah once you get into the double standards that is the mark of the abusive male and every society ever that has presided over a genocide, the conversation's over.

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