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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Laura Bates & Everyday Misogyny

35 replies

HappenedXo · 03/09/2020 10:40

There’s an article by Laura Bates in the Daily Mail today. In it she bewails the fact that when she goes to talk in schools, teenage boys are increasingly misogynistic and disbelieving. She puts this down to online radicalisation in terms of exposure to incels, MRAs, gaming, etc (which I agree with, as far as it goes).

What has left me so annoyed, though, is that she utterly fails to recognise that the TWAW mantra is part of this. Women, actual women, have been marginalised. We’re called uterus havers & people who menstruate. Our fears of male violence are belittled and sneered at. Our wish for the dignity & privacy of single sex spaces has been labelled ‘transphobic’. We’re shouted down when we try to discuss our concerns. This forum even is patrolled by people who want to stop us discussing women’s safety and dignity & privacy & the need for single sex spaces.

And as far as I know Everyday Sexism has been entirely on board with this roll back of rights! It has consistently supported the idea that biological males are women, in some mysterious unbiological way, and need the support of feminism. Which brings with it all the issues outlined above. Loss of privacy dignity & safety. Loss of our role as women. Loss of freedom to argue for our rights. Men in women’s prisons & sports. Inability to measure the sexual pay gap. Inability to measure male rates of sexual assault. Loss of feminism as a woman focused movement.

The TWAW mantra is part of exactly the rising misogyny Laura describes in her article. Not just a part- it’s a huge, integral part. A fundamental undermining of the concept of ‘woman’ on which so many of our rights depend. It’s both a symptom and a cause of misogyny and the MRA movement. And yet she’s utterly blind to it. She can’t see the misogyny, and the threat to women, in a movement she has supported. Why?

OP posts:
SpaceOP · 03/09/2020 12:57

The point he makes about very very few men have ever been falsely accused vs most women experiencing sexual harassment, if not sexual abuse, is probably as true for their extended group as it is for his audience. So it is useful. He's very clever alongside his funniness.

Wbeezer · 03/09/2020 12:51

Thanks @SpaceOP I'll l check that out.
They do seem to be parotting things they have heard others saying rather than holding deep convictions. They are scathing about incels and do have healthy relationships with girls. In fact now I think about it they have been appalled about sleazy behaviour from men towards their female friends/girlfriends too so at least there's some balance!

SpaceOP · 03/09/2020 12:01

@Wbeezer:

they seem particularly concerned about women and girls weaponising sexual assault allegations and diversity hiring,

In this article is a brilliant clip from Trevor Noah on this: www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-30875448.html

If you think it would work, it's worth getting your DSs to watch this....

Annasgirl · 03/09/2020 11:55

@SpaceOP

I'm not sure I 100% agree with you. The two are linked, definitely, but I often think the TWAW thing is at least partially the result of this increasing idea that MEN are hard done by and that their rights are being trampled. This then opens the door to this idea that whoopee, instead, let's just say we're women because they have it soooo much better than us. Which of course, is complete bollocks and completely ignores all this shit about women's safety etc.

I had an interesting conversation with DS who is 9 the other day. He often goes into the mens bathrooms etc by himself as he's too old to come with me. But we were at a major train station and I was very uncomfortable with him going to the men's alone. He knows I worry about men doing "bad things" but he asked me, "But mum, why do you trust men so much less than women. That's not fair." Luckily, that's an easy one to nip in the bud because I was able to tell him, 100% honestly, that unfortunately, it is just a fact that men are more likely to do bad things to children than women. If you ask the police, they'll tell you that it's much more often men they have to arrest etc etc.

But what scares me, is that right now, he's asking ME these questions. And I can answer them. But what happens in a few years when he gets caught up on some YouTuber who rants about how men are unfairly accused and are also victims of domestic violence etc etc etc? I have to just keep trying to instil this reality in him NOW while I still can.

Yes x 100. That is why the policing of women’s speech is so horrifying
SpaceOP · 03/09/2020 11:52

I'm not sure I 100% agree with you. The two are linked, definitely, but I often think the TWAW thing is at least partially the result of this increasing idea that MEN are hard done by and that their rights are being trampled. This then opens the door to this idea that whoopee, instead, let's just say we're women because they have it soooo much better than us. Which of course, is complete bollocks and completely ignores all this shit about women's safety etc.

I had an interesting conversation with DS who is 9 the other day. He often goes into the mens bathrooms etc by himself as he's too old to come with me. But we were at a major train station and I was very uncomfortable with him going to the men's alone. He knows I worry about men doing "bad things" but he asked me, "But mum, why do you trust men so much less than women. That's not fair." Luckily, that's an easy one to nip in the bud because I was able to tell him, 100% honestly, that unfortunately, it is just a fact that men are more likely to do bad things to children than women. If you ask the police, they'll tell you that it's much more often men they have to arrest etc etc.

But what scares me, is that right now, he's asking ME these questions. And I can answer them. But what happens in a few years when he gets caught up on some YouTuber who rants about how men are unfairly accused and are also victims of domestic violence etc etc etc? I have to just keep trying to instil this reality in him NOW while I still can.

Wbeezer · 03/09/2020 11:52

My sons don't believe TWAW but two of them (the pair that watch a lot of youtube and do online gaming) do spout some cynical stuff about women, they seem particularly concerned about women and girls weaponising sexual assault allegations and diversity hiring, i always challenge them and they di seem to save these views for hypothetical women rather than women they know IRL. i don't like it though.
I don't think the two issues are inextricably linked but they do work in parralel to undermine feminism.

ChakaDakotaRegina · 03/09/2020 11:33

The comments on that article are terrifying.

SunsetBeetch · 03/09/2020 11:33

@HyperboleKnickers

I didn't know that LB had been captured by the ideological nonsense and it's very disappointing to hear that.

She should read your opening post, it was bang on.

I was just going to say, is there any way we can contact her?
HyperboleKnickers · 03/09/2020 11:14

I didn't know that LB had been captured by the ideological nonsense and it's very disappointing to hear that.

She should read your opening post, it was bang on.