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Laura Bates & Everyday Misogyny

35 replies

HappenedXo · 03/09/2020 10:40

There’s an article by Laura Bates in the Daily Mail today. In it she bewails the fact that when she goes to talk in schools, teenage boys are increasingly misogynistic and disbelieving. She puts this down to online radicalisation in terms of exposure to incels, MRAs, gaming, etc (which I agree with, as far as it goes).

What has left me so annoyed, though, is that she utterly fails to recognise that the TWAW mantra is part of this. Women, actual women, have been marginalised. We’re called uterus havers & people who menstruate. Our fears of male violence are belittled and sneered at. Our wish for the dignity & privacy of single sex spaces has been labelled ‘transphobic’. We’re shouted down when we try to discuss our concerns. This forum even is patrolled by people who want to stop us discussing women’s safety and dignity & privacy & the need for single sex spaces.

And as far as I know Everyday Sexism has been entirely on board with this roll back of rights! It has consistently supported the idea that biological males are women, in some mysterious unbiological way, and need the support of feminism. Which brings with it all the issues outlined above. Loss of privacy dignity & safety. Loss of our role as women. Loss of freedom to argue for our rights. Men in women’s prisons & sports. Inability to measure the sexual pay gap. Inability to measure male rates of sexual assault. Loss of feminism as a woman focused movement.

The TWAW mantra is part of exactly the rising misogyny Laura describes in her article. Not just a part- it’s a huge, integral part. A fundamental undermining of the concept of ‘woman’ on which so many of our rights depend. It’s both a symptom and a cause of misogyny and the MRA movement. And yet she’s utterly blind to it. She can’t see the misogyny, and the threat to women, in a movement she has supported. Why?

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Antibles · 08/09/2020 00:25

I think porn may have a massive impact on young men's attitudes towards women. I mean honestly, how can it not? I don't know the half of what's out there but I imagine seeing dead-eyed women being fucked in every orifice, physically and verbally abused; their deliberate degradation presented as a turn on for you, that has to colour your attitude to women. How can one of these creatures, of the kind who accepts your dick up her arse, your cum on her face, be qualified to tell you, a male, what to do, what to think?

I think many (straight) men have always had a problem with respect for the type of person who is penetrated. The hideously disrespectful variations on this now available via porn just make things ten times worse. It undermines every message the non-porn world tries to send about male-female equality (not a coincidence).

No surprise if Laura has trouble getting respect from teenage boys and young men. Just imagine what they've seen and what they're thinking about when they look at females these days. I'm amazed some turn out as pleasant as they do.

SunsetBeetch · 07/09/2020 17:59

@RaelImperialAerosolKid

It's not just boys who have a distorted view of women though - it's a problem for our girls. Watching Avengers for example and seeing Black Widow fighting gives them a false sense of security over what is achievable. In lock down we had a family PE session and even the mention of 'girl' pushups gave DD an absolute rage. I was proud that she believed in absolute equality- but it did make me wonder if I've been giving her the right messages.
I've had a couple of young women on twitter tell me it's "sexist" to say men are stronger than women. Perhaps this is one reason why they are not as concerned with their personal safety and need for women only spaces?
QuentinWinters · 04/09/2020 12:08

I shared it with DP and he's shared it with male friends now. Its really good at dispassionately picking the "victimhood" narrative apart and I like the fact he uses a less acceptable victimhood of white people in South Africa Post apartheid (in the Liberal west) as an illustration of the problems women and #metoo face. I think that gives a bit of distance for most western men and allows them to digest what he says.
Very clever piece.

SpaceOP · 04/09/2020 09:59

@HopeClearwater @QuentinWinters Any time. I review that every now and again and use the arguments a LOT. DH, who is absolutely on board as a feminist ally, is nonetheless still a white man. And sometimes, he finds himself asking these questions. Trevor's arguments helped a lot with that and he's now completely internalised the ridiculousness of it. I think with a lot of these issues, most of us can't help our instinctive agreement when someone says something like, "men can so easily be accused of sexual misconduct" and we need someone to really clearly and calmly unpick it. In the context of false sexual assault allegations, Trevor 100% completely nailed it.

Signalbox · 04/09/2020 09:02

Laura Bates might not be as aggressive in her views as Everyday Feminism, but she is still pro-trans

LB does appear to believe that TWAW but the Everyday Sexism Project is Just a catalogue of women’s stories. It doesn’t promote the TWAW narrative (as far as I can see). That’s why I am wondering if op is thinking of Everyday Feminism when she says...

“And as far as I know Everyday Sexism has been entirely on board with this roll back of rights! It has consistently supported the idea that biological males are women, in some mysterious unbiological way“

Kit19 · 04/09/2020 08:47

“I have always felt strongly that it was important to include men and other marginalised groups in feminist activism”

RoyalCorgi · 04/09/2020 08:44

Signalbox - Laura Bates might not be as aggressive in her views as Everyday Feminism, but she is still pro-trans:

exposure.org.uk/2018/04/everyday-sexism-project-founder-talks-about-her-powerful-platform-for-equality/

" I have always felt strongly that it is paramount to include trans women and other marginalised groups within feminist activism."

QuentinWinters · 04/09/2020 08:34

Yes, thanks space it was excellent

HopeClearwater · 04/09/2020 00:00

@SpaceOP Many thanks for the link to that excellent Trevor Noah piece.

Wbeezer · 03/09/2020 22:29

@Signalbox, i worry about it too.
Two of my boys have ADHD and the other has ASD, this makes them vulnerable to possibly not handling conplicated emotional and social situations perfectly and people seem so quick to judge and so slow to forgive.

Signalbox · 03/09/2020 21:42

And as far as I know Everyday Sexism has been entirely on board with this roll back of rights! It has consistently supported the idea that biological males are women, in some mysterious unbiological way, and need the support of feminism

OP I'm just wondering if you might be getting the Everyday Sexism Project confused with Everyday Feminism (the online "educational platform")?

everydaysexism.com/about

everydayfeminism.com/about-ef/

Signalbox · 03/09/2020 20:56

My sons don't believe TWAW but two of them (the pair that watch a lot of youtube and do online gaming) do spout some cynical stuff about women, they seem particularly concerned about women and girls weaponising sexual assault allegations

I've been wondering lately if, in this post truth world, the idea that women are prepared to lie about sexual assault will get much worse.

We are living in a time when a person's "lived experience" is considered to be more important than objective truth. The narrative online is that emotional mean-ness amounts to literal violence. There isn't a day goes by where I don't see people just make stuff up on Twitter to prove a point and there doesn't seem to be any shame attached to talking shite anymore. Rightly or wrongly I can understand the concern that some young men might have, especially if they spend any time at all on the internet.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/09/2020 19:21

She has done good work, and I'm not suggesting she should be attacked for this in any way, I just find this ideological blindspot quite weird.

WhereAreWeNow · 03/09/2020 17:00

Laura Bates is in the TWAW camp but I've never seen her push that agenda publicly and I've never heard her attack GC women publicly so, as someone else said, she's entitled to her views. I think she's done a lot of fantastic work. Everyday sexism was truly groundbreaking. She really opened up a whole discussion that previously wasn't getting much in the way of mainstream media attention. Hats off to her for that.
From reading some of her articles and seeing her speak at a couple of events, I think she's really smart and also seems like a very nice person.

WeeBisom · 03/09/2020 15:59

I notice in the Daily Mail that they recommend getting kids to watch “contrapoints” videos to combat the manosphere arguments. This is precisely the problem. Contrapoints is a trans woman who, as a man, produced anti feminist , men’s rights activism videos. Contrapoints is also incredibly sexist - in one video they boast they are “grade A tuna” while gender critical women are “stinky mackerel” (a reference to the idea that passing trans women are “fishy”)

So on the one hand kids are watching shit from sexist MRAS, and to counter this they are being told to watch another kind of male who is also incredibly sexist and reduces women to a set of stereotypes.

BacklashBacklash · 03/09/2020 15:53

I like Laura Bates and admire her for getting stuff done. I've never heard her saying anything scathing or abusive about "TERFs" or JKR or Karens. It's the people who get abusive and manipulative about this issue that bother me, not the ones who hold a different opinion to me. There are quite a few feminists who've chosen not to get bogged down in this issue, and I completely understand that.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 03/09/2020 15:34

@QuentinWinters

Laura Bates is awesome. I don't like this trend of throwing women under the bus from all sides for "wrong think". She's done amazing work especially for younger women and is not pushing "TWAW" at all. If that's her view shes entitled to it.
Agree. Plus, she is right to fear that the resulting screams of 'transphobe' would drown out everything else she said. Her voice is important and I don't want to see it silenced.
QuentinWinters · 03/09/2020 15:08

Laura Bates is awesome. I don't like this trend of throwing women under the bus from all sides for "wrong think".
She's done amazing work especially for younger women and is not pushing "TWAW" at all. If that's her view shes entitled to it.

RaelImperialAerosolKid · 03/09/2020 15:04

It's not just boys who have a distorted view of women though - it's a problem for our girls. Watching Avengers for example and seeing Black Widow fighting gives them a false sense of security over what is achievable.
In lock down we had a family PE session and even the mention of 'girl' pushups gave DD an absolute rage. I was proud that she believed in absolute equality- but it did make me wonder if I've been giving her the right messages.

SpaceOP · 03/09/2020 13:37

@IrenetheQuaint I agree. As far as I know, she hasn't said anything about TWAW. I don't think her work therefore lacks substances because she's choosing only to focus on specific things.

And it was Laura Bates and the Everyday Sexism project that really started opening my eyes to the relentless daily shit women have to wade through. I'm grateful for that.

IrenetheQuaint · 03/09/2020 13:35

Laura Bates has done years of amazing work exposing the nature and prevalence of everyday woman hating, and received vast quantities of abuse and violent threats as a result. I don't think we should expect her to make her life even harder by publicly denouncing the trans gospel too.

(If she has publicly denounced radical feminists then I would have an issue with that, obviously, but I haven't seen evidence of this myself.)

HyperboleKnickers · 03/09/2020 13:27

You'd think that being a feminist herself, LB would be aware of this space and may even pop in from time to time. If so..

Hello Laura and welcome. What do you think about the original post on this thread?

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 03/09/2020 13:14

Its a mystery to me why Laura Bates has this blind spot

. Glinner interviewed a woman recently on Youtube who had been married to an AGP. This violent and abusive man clearly got his views on women from the porn he consumed obsessively. He didn't seem able to recognise women as full human beings at all, their role was to service men and could be used and disposed of at will. It was ghastly.

But it turned him on to think of himself, and dress, as a woman and it made me think about the role of porn in creating men like this. I am certain it is pivotal.

queenofknives · 03/09/2020 13:03

I think Laura Bates has a book coming out, so...

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