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Original poster

Exasperated and worried.

62 replies

FloralTeacup · 02/09/2020 15:08

I've followed a few threads on here around gender, the trans agenda, JK Rowling, etc. It's been the only place to keep me sane!

I was truly (albeit, naively), shocked at the negative, and often violent responses to JK Rowling speaking out in June. I honestly didn't realise that so many people believe that being gender critical is transphobic or hateful. It wasn't until I spoke to a good friend about it, mentioning that I disagreed with all the vitriol towards Rowling that I realised that people like me, and those of you on here, are actually in the minority.

I feel afraid to publicly speak up about the harmful agenda of many TRAs. The blatant misogyny, disregard for women's safety, dismissal of women's rights, and even safeguarding of children, are just a few things that deeply concern me.

What can we do to be heard? Are we allowed to express our views without being reported for hate speech?! (Meanwhile, TRAs spew all sorts of threats and hate speech, which is apparently deemed as ok).

OP posts:
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Delphinium20 · 02/09/2020 23:58

@Skyliner001

There are plenty of none GC people out there. Don't be so sure you are in the majority and everyone is just 'not speaking up' or 'uneducated'

There is a lot of misinformation and bias on MN.

Also don't be so sure that every GC person has no issue with trans women, they really do. 20 years ago they world have disliked gay people. That's a fact. Argue all you like. This is an echo chamber anyway.

There are plenty of bigots hiding under the GC term.

20 years ago I was actively working on behalf of gay rights (still am btw). I'm not going to out myself, but I was involved in a lesbian, gay and bisexual publication that supported the community. I championed gay marriage and worked politically to help get it passed in my state. I also champion and support my local BLM group (many of us are mothers and fathers and grandparents who's children go to school together and we also are active in other community orgs in our urban area). In politics, I have always been more of a lefty than a middle of the road. I am GC because I'm a feminist, not because I'm a bigot.
Delphinium20 · 02/09/2020 23:43

@Sheheshehe

I know how you feel. It might feel like you're in the minority but I really don't think you are. There are some people who haven't really properly engaged with the issue. They might see the likes of Paris Lees on a Pantene advert and think 'Good on 'em' - they look like a good looking woman on the screen and they look like they'd be a laugh. Or see Munroe Bergdorf and think 'how glamorous' what's everyone getting their knickers in a twist for.

When I first became aware of this issue (but obviously not really 'aware') I thought back to all the times I'd crowded round the mirror of the ladies in a club with gay male friends and no-one batted an eye-lid (or if they did I didn't notice because I was too wrapped up in my own world) I couldn't get exercised over the toilet issue.

But then I grew up and had experiences and had kids and needed to lean on other women for support and began to value the spaces I used for support that were entirely female. I then began to notice how all of a sudden there was a resurgence of this restrictive 'gender' nonsense that seemed to be going backwards in terms of how 'male' and 'females' were expected to behave. On the surface it seemed to say 'be who you want to be' but scratch that surface and you were confronted with painfully archaic stereotypes.

And then i became aware of the piss-takers. And then I became aware of how I couldn't talk freely about the piss-takers. And that I couldn't talk freely on a forum like Mumsnet (although I am still grateful that I can come here and vent even though they've had to tow the line to a degree and police our speech for fear of being shut down)

I have days when I could and have cried. I have days when I worry about my teenage daughter and how she might be treated for having views that don't precisely chime with some of her friends who are keen to express their gender rigidity, sorry, 'fluidity'. To declare yourself straight, lesbian or even bisexual is deemed to be prudish and exclusionary amongst some her friends (who are 12/13).

There are days when I want to give up. To give in. And I step away from MN for a few days. But there's always some outrageous, utter piss-take that drives me back and persuades me to keep on supporting the cause of supporting women. It's my daughter who will bear the brunt of any negative changes and I can't have that on my conscience.

Sorry if that hasn't exactly made you feel any less worried or exasperated Grin

What she said!
nachthexe · 02/09/2020 23:43

That’s actually really funny (ironically, as I joined the thread to say I wasn’t laughing). I’m rabidly GC. And twenty years ago was rabidly pro-trans and spent my formative years on mn arguing with Dittany on behalf of all the poor people born in the wrong bodies. It’s only when you wake up to the fact that women’s rights ARE being eroded, and that gender ideology cements, not destroys the binary, that the scales fall from your eyes.
It’s alright @Skyliner001 there’s hope for you yet. Wink You Too can go from pro-trans gender research to terf. (The pay is shit though. Try and get tenure first. Support staff wages are terrible.)

DialSquare · 02/09/2020 23:41

@yourhairiswinterfire

How ironic of Skyliner to mention ignorance when they have no idea who falls under the trans umbrella.

I know. They're lucky they made that faux pas here.

Those Sky is allied to don't take too kindly to invalidating slip ups like that.

Too true. Skyliner also doesn't seem to be aware of the many Trans people who say they are being harmed by the TRA agenda.
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 02/09/2020 23:30

don't be so sure that every GC person has no issue with trans women, they really do. 20 years ago they world have disliked gay people. That's a fact.

No, it's not a fact, it's just a statement you are making, Skyliner. You don't offer any evidence for this preposterous assertion, because there isn't any evidence.

I don't know one woman who opposes gay rights, or who supports men's 'right' to access women's single-sex spaces.

yourhairiswinterfire · 02/09/2020 23:12

How ironic of Skyliner to mention ignorance when they have no idea who falls under the trans umbrella.

I know. They're lucky they made that faux pas here.

Those Sky is allied to don't take too kindly to invalidating slip ups like that.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 02/09/2020 23:11

@Mollscroll

I obviously object more to an intact male claiming to be a woman and coming into female spaces. But none of them are women. None. On any level. I don’t feel any need to dissemble about this fact.
And this!
PotholeParadise · 02/09/2020 23:10

Twenty years ago was 2000, not 1900. Grin

In 2000 my top political concerns were the cost of the Millennium Dome and arguing for gay rights on t'internet. Grin

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 02/09/2020 23:10

@Mollscroll

We are only in the minority because we know what’s going on and most don’t. That’s why they work so hard with abuse and threats to shut us up - heaven forbid people actually hear what’s going on and make up their own minds.

You only have to read the thread on AIBU about the Proud Trust - people are initially cautious, think it must be a storm in a tea cup, nobody is really using taxpayers money to encourage girls into anal sex. Initially a few comments of ‘prude’ etc and then with more sunlight comes horror and then anger.

It’s why I always post on these issues on AIBU if it comes up. People don’t know. They need to know.

Exactly.
TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 02/09/2020 23:08

So we can assume that is a change of sex. This is what the whole trans rights campaign was about since 1971, the right to a corrected birth certificate.

It is not physically possible to change sex, Gottalife; only to modify one’s body so that it (in some cases) gives the appearance of being the opposite sex to that which it actually is, and to create a legal fiction that one is the opposite sex to that which one actually is.

The term “sex” refers to one’s reproductive capacity (hence the term “sexual reproduction”), and that - whether functional or not - cannot be changed from male to female, or vice versa.

And those birth certificates issued after a GRC are not “corrected” but falsified. A falsehood about a question of material reality, enshrined in law.

The GRA was a terrible betrayal of the people by the elected government of the day.

DialSquare · 02/09/2020 22:50

How ironic of Skyliner to mention ignorance when they have no idea who falls under the trans umbrella.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 02/09/2020 22:50

@Skyliner001

There are plenty of none GC people out there. Don't be so sure you are in the majority and everyone is just 'not speaking up' or 'uneducated'

There is a lot of misinformation and bias on MN.

Also don't be so sure that every GC person has no issue with trans women, they really do. 20 years ago they world have disliked gay people. That's a fact. Argue all you like. This is an echo chamber anyway.

There are plenty of bigots hiding under the GC term.

Your post is actually a perfect example of the misinformation and bias peddled by transactivists and their allies, Skyliner.

It’s a bare-faced lie and completely absurd to say it’s a “fact” that 20 years ago GC people would have disliked gay people. Apart from the fact (real fact!) that there is no way you could possibly evidence this claim, which is based on nothing but your own fevered imaginings, can it really have escaped your attention that a great many GC people are L/G/B?

Many LGB people are sickened by the intrinsic homophobia of genderism, just as many women are sickened by its intrinsic misogyny. I detect both those odious attributes in you, and accordingly rate your bigoted opinions as perfectly worthless.

yourhairiswinterfire · 02/09/2020 22:49

Haha, Skyliner was telling me the other day I was wrong about cross dressers and fetishists falling under the trans umbrella. Didn't come back when they were proven wrong by numerous posters.

Doesn't even know themselves what they're defending, so 🤷‍♀️

Mammatino · 02/09/2020 22:18

@skyliner I just talk to people who are worried. I don’t read the daily mail.

nachthexe · 02/09/2020 22:15

@Skyliner001 well it’s the story that pays my mortgage, and the story that means I have to find ways to maintain women’s rights to sex segregated spaces whilst guarding against being accused of transphobia, bringing the university into disrepute, and losing my job, so maybe you should try the real world, instead of whichever refined little bubble you prefer to inhabit? Some of us actually care about doing the right thing for ALL of the people we come into contact with. That includes people who identify as trans (if they declare this and request single accom we provide without question. Odd that we don’t offer females the same priority.) I will not have women’s rights to sex segregated sleeping spaces disappeared because some people decide that ‘gender’ should be the allocating identifier. Not if the women are unaware.
Sorry for giving a fuck about female students and all.

JellyFishSquish · 02/09/2020 22:11

Skyliner001 drops a rainbow poop bomb and departs. So surprising. Then doesn't leave after all Hmm

Who the h*ll are you talking too, does your info come from the daily mail? Actually what Mammatino described sounds like real life to me, where does your info come from?

OP the "misinformation and bias" that Sky scorns must be in their own head. We are people with trans family and friends. And are lesbian or have lesbian and gay family and friends. We do not hate, we just do not want to see women's rights trampled. I wonder if Sky would be so generous? Would they, for instance, agree that the treatment of JKR was absolutely inexcusable? For it was.

Original poster
FloralTeacup · 02/09/2020 21:34

@Skyliner001

So leave, then?

OP posts:
Skyliner001 · 02/09/2020 21:26

@nachthexe

Well, it doesn’t make me laugh. I live it. And I have to allocate student housing in shared bedrooms on the basis of gender, not sex. Which means your daughter could be allocated a bedroom with an intact male and be accused of transphobia if she has the confidence to ask to be moved. Funny it ain’t.
Cool story.
Skyliner001 · 02/09/2020 21:25

The ignorance on this forum is startling. I'm out.

All the best 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

Skyliner001 · 02/09/2020 21:24

@Mammatino

In my own personal experience we are definitely not in the minority, most people sidle up to the topic (to check they aren’t going to get called a filthy bigot), sigh a huge sigh of relief and explain how they feel. I’ve never ever heard any transphobia, just genuine concern for themselves and their daughters safety. Also a real concern for trans people and vulnerable young people. When we discuss self ID they are worried, when we discuss young lesbians being bullied into having sex with people with a penis they are horrified. When we discuss mutilating youngsters they are fucking angry.
Who the h*ll are you talking too, does your info come from the daily mail?
Kit19 · 02/09/2020 21:22

Part of the process of gaining a GRC is living as your preferred gender and yet Freddie McConnell became pregnant after identifying as a man and applying for a GRC

Pregnancy & childbirth are the most female of things and one would think Freddie would be deeply traumatised by having to go through it & yet they chose to do so

Skyliner001 · 02/09/2020 21:18

There are plenty of none GC people out there. Don't be so sure you are in the majority and everyone is just 'not speaking up' or 'uneducated'

There is a lot of misinformation and bias on MN.

Also don't be so sure that every GC person has no issue with trans women, they really do. 20 years ago they world have disliked gay people. That's a fact. Argue all you like. This is an echo chamber anyway.

There are plenty of bigots hiding under the GC term.

nachthexe · 02/09/2020 21:14

@ThinEndoftheWedge

Which means your daughter could be allocated a bedroom with an intact male and be accused of transphobia if she has the confidence to ask to be moved.

As someone who has shared mixed sex flats at uni / mixed sex accommodation youth hostels etc, and read all the nonsense that is happening - what you describe still stands out as absolutely appalling.

Are there many shared rooms still left?

More than 50% of our accom is shared bedroom. I’m not counting shared flats with single bedrooms. Right now we are using them at half occupancy for distancing. I hope we never go back, but I don’t know who will pick up the tab.
CoffeeTeaChocolate · 02/09/2020 21:12

I was assuming ereshkigalangcleg was referring to backgrounds and criminal history? Unfortunately it appears that also trans women commit sexual assault (I believe we were talking about safety?).

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/8647171/transgender-woman-sexually-assaulted-girl-morrisons/amp/

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8521787/amp/Paedophile-54-used-public-Wi-Fi-download-child-porn-hospital.html

I don’t really see what looks has to do with safe guarding? Or why anyone on this board would even consider looks?

Gottalife · 02/09/2020 20:44

@Ereshkigalangcleg:
"You should see some of the people that GRC have been awarded to."

That's a very unfeminist thing to say. I presume you are in favour of beauty contests. Or do you mean trans men?