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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Which spaces do non-binary people use?

59 replies

BewaretheIckabog · 01/09/2020 22:43

I’m sure this will have been covered before but ...

GC people are happy to support a campaign for third spaces. I know it’s not always practical, cost-effective etc but in principle single-sex spaces for men and women and third spaces would be good. When it comes to toilets in small restaurants, cafes etc full enclosed unisex would work as they do for disabled.

It seems the TRA lobby are more interested in opening up single-sex to people by gender identity. Third spaces would not be inclusive and would be othering.

As the alphabet+ is so inclusive and caring surely they should be campaigning for third spaces to stand with non-binary people. Trans women and TRAs would then be able to us those spaces without outing themselves , they would be boldly standing up (to pee) and showing solidarity with NBs.

I know toilets and changing rooms are a small part of the single-sex spaces but if Jameela Jamal, Emma Watson, the TRAs, all gender fluid, NBs, trans people and all those who support mixed sex spaces or aren’t bothered by the genitals of those peeing next to them use those spaces there will be no problem.

OP posts:
Catsfriend · 02/09/2020 06:53

The question was which spaces do non-binary women use.
The question was not which spaces would trans women want.

ImaSababa · 02/09/2020 06:35

Male bodied people go in male spaces. Female bodied people go in female spaces. Simple.

NiceGerbil · 02/09/2020 03:29

There is not the money, space or inclination to have 3rd spaces or convert everything to single enclosed cubicles.

also. TRAs are not fighting for this. They are fighting for access to single sex spaces, and currently getting the them.

Female facilities are made 'all gender'. Men's seem to stay for men.

Non binary. If sex is irrelevant and gender is all then they need a 3rd space. Again, not being fought for.

DidoLamenting · 02/09/2020 02:45

To this end, we need to rethink spaces like toilets and changing rooms to replace sex segregation with individual privacy. In Germany, for example, these facilities are often based around individual cubicles (with larger ones for families) and this is the model we should be working towards

I agree re individual privacy. I have no desire to see other people , men or women , naked. I hate communal changing rooms.

Durgasarrow · 02/09/2020 02:10

I wish I could "like" your post 10 times over, Old Crone.

OldCrone · 02/09/2020 00:44

I can't expect them to see the female mind and not the "male" body.

A female brain is a brain in a female body.

Single sex spaces are there because female bodies are different from male bodies, not because female brains are different from male brains.

Datun · 02/09/2020 00:44

the needs of a small minority such as the disabled, non binary or transgender should not be disregarded in the interests of the larger group.

But you're quite happy for them to be able to dictate to 99% of the rest of the population, that they must use any facilities in complete isolation.

Women together must be stopped at all costs, it would appear.

People who say they are non-binary, just as people who say they are trans, all come from one of the two sexes. Just like everyone else.

We segregate by sex, not by how someone thinks, or how they think they think, or because they don't think they think like any other male or female.

SomeDyke · 02/09/2020 00:34

to replace sex segregation with individual privacy.
Except I value the company of others of my sex, in changing rooms and shared saunas, for example. Where the full range of female bodies is an important experience for other females. From school changing rooms, to pool changing areas, as I have got older, the experience of seeing other females happy with their bodies, however old they are, and however their bodies have changed. There is nothing for older women to be ashamed of, and like the current openness around prosthetic limbs etc, 'individual privacy' is not always a good thing. Yes, a 'third space', the privacy for those who want it, but don't impose it on the rest of us.

MiladyRenata · 01/09/2020 23:26

I'll answer this to the best of my ability from the TRA perspective.

The underlying principle should be safety and dignity for all. This is not a numbers game; the needs of a small minority such as the disabled, non binary or transgender should not be disregarded in the interests of the larger group.

To this end, we need to rethink spaces like toilets and changing rooms to replace sex segregation with individual privacy. In Germany, for example, these facilities are often based around individual cubicles (with larger ones for families) and this is the model we should be working towards.

Things do, admittedly, become a lot more difficult when we are talking about things like hospital wards and prisons. I don't have all the answers here, but as a trans woman I think the ideal would be to be separated from both men and other women wherever possible. This protects my dignity as a woman while acknowledging the reality of biology; women who are not transgender should not have to share intimate spaces with us because of the way we appear. Sadly, I can't expect them to see the female mind and not the "male" body.

These arrangements would, I think, also be ideal for non binary people, though I cannot speak for them directly.

Hope this helps a bit.

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