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Original poster

Use pronouns or face dismissal

133 replies

MrsSlocombesPussy · 31/08/2020 18:18

Saw this on Twitter

twitter.com/cupwomenspledge/status/1300406897166766080?s=21

"During the period when there was no government in Northern Ireland, the civil service altered its rule book to say that all workers must use whatever words transgender people want, or face disciplinary action – and possible dismissal."

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 01/09/2020 00:55

There's no bloody hope for those of us who can't remember names or faces or what people are wearing or whether they wear glasses. I failed the visual memory test I was doing on five year olds.

BahHumbygge · 01/09/2020 00:30

I often get my dog's and cat's names muddled up... I not only missex them, I misspecies them in the bargain Blush It takes me several meetings to remember new human names... then there's all the important details about them that I struggle to remember to ask about in conversation... how did your daughter do in her exams, is your mother home from hospital etc? Adding another dimension of complexity through mandated non-natural pronouns, my brain would give up completely. 🤯

tearinyourhand · 31/08/2020 23:56

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Durgasarrow · 31/08/2020 23:56

A friend of mine worked with a transman who changed his man name several times--from Kyle to Trevor to Jay or some damn thing. So she could have been fired for not keeping track of which name du jour this person was identifying with at the moment.

MouseandCat · 31/08/2020 23:43

@namechanger3108

Namechanged as a bit of a lurker but have seen the consequences of being outed. I recently joined NI Civil Service, that is independent of the Civil Service in the rest of the UK and there are indeed about 23,000 civil servants.

I've only joined in the last few months and so still in probation so afraid to ask too many questions. I haven't read it since first joining but the guidance is very much of you make a mistake and apologise and move on. But consistently using the wrong name/ pronouns may result in disciplinary action. It also states that the person transitioning may use the facilities with their new gender. It did reference stonewall so I think that is where it has come from. But the law is different here, the GRA applies but the equality act 2010 does not. There is a NI specific piece of legislation from 1976 which covers equality and I'm still trying to figure out if the sex based exemptions apply.

So in short I think the same thing as has been seen in other government guidance has happened in that an over reliance on an external organisations has happened.

I think the NI Health and Safety in the workplace regulations have some sex specific protections.
DialSquare · 31/08/2020 22:52

I've been wondering about people with Tourette's. It's so hard to stop themselves ticking and saying inappropriate things without the added stress of pronouns not matching sex.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 31/08/2020 22:47

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SerenityNowwwww · 31/08/2020 22:42

I’m sometimes called ‘he’ by some relatives - and ds called ‘she’.

yourhairiswinterfire · 31/08/2020 22:38

@SerenityNowwwww

What if your first language doesn’t use pronouns and you make mistakes?
I wonder about blind people who rely on voices.

I mean, I'd love to be confident that some compassion would be shown, but after what happened to Declan Armstrong, the teen with Asperger's mentioned earlier...my hopes aren't very high that common sense would prevail.

MartiniDry · 31/08/2020 22:37

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SerenityNowwwww · 31/08/2020 22:31

What if your first language doesn’t use pronouns and you make mistakes?

yourhairiswinterfire · 31/08/2020 22:30

The thing that's irking me is...I have no issue whatsoever with genuine trans people who suffer with dysphoria. I'd always do my best to refer to the them as he/she, but I am only human and I'd hope they'd be understanding if I made an honest mistake. I'd never set out to deliberately upset someone.

But the definition of trans has been hijacked. The definition is basically 'anyone who wants to be trans is trans', including drag queens, fetishists, cross dressers, attention seekers etc. We're basically going to be forced to play along with someone's fetish, and I want no fucking part in that. The majority of us don't go to work to help someone 'get off'.

I think it was a big mistake making trans an umbrella term. It's not fair on genuine transmen and women (or transsexuals), nor on us who are going to have to play along with it.

DialSquare · 31/08/2020 22:27

Yep. It's back to the emperor's new clothes again.

Mollscroll · 31/08/2020 22:25

Yup. It’s coercive control.

DialSquare · 31/08/2020 22:24

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Mollscroll · 31/08/2020 22:21

Pips Bunce does get annoyed if you call them he on a she day Confused. And uses the toilets they feel like according to the day of the week.

Mollscroll · 31/08/2020 22:19

I’m sure you’re picturing a rather sympathetic Anne. What about Karen White, Jessica Yaniv ? What about them is female ? Why would they be a she because they say so?

And by the way I’ve only picked on those two because MNHQ allow us to talk about them fairly accurately.

ArabellaScott · 31/08/2020 22:17

I'd like to know the position for people who avoid using pronouns altogether. Would I be sacked for refusing to use certain words? Because that would be interesting.

NiceGerbil · 31/08/2020 22:15

What happens with pips bounce types?

NiceGerbil · 31/08/2020 22:14

The toilets thing is not good.

I'm ok with using they but I suspect that could be seen as harassment as well which would be shit.

NiceGerbil · 31/08/2020 22:13

Yes I think if you work with Anne who you know is a transwoman, deliberately calling them he/ Dave all the time is bullying.

ChewtonRoad · 31/08/2020 21:43

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RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 31/08/2020 21:42

@SerenityNowwwww

I’d be out on my ear then - I can’t even remember peoples names at the best of times.
Hell yeah

Its a good day if i can remember my own name

SerenityNowwwww · 31/08/2020 21:41

I’d be out on my ear then - I can’t even remember peoples names at the best of times.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 31/08/2020 21:40

@SerenityNowwwww

So if someone asks to be referred to as other than their sex and you feel uncomfortable and use ‘they’ as a compromise - you could get fired?
I think thats the gist

And if you DONT call some people ‘they’ you could be sacked as well

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