Any GC politicians to vote for in New Zealand?

@Seraphinite I came across this tweet today by the TOP candidate for Epsom and thought of you. (May not be party policy of course!)

Heartening to see fellow GC Feminists in New Zealand on this thread. I too have been struggling with how to vote and toying with the idea of spoiling my ballot paper.

I am now inspired to contact my local candidates to ask their opinion on this and it may at least help inform my candidate vote. Not so sure about my party vote

It is a real shame language has become so muddied @OtepotiLilliane42 - with gender used interchangeably with sex, even by people you are reasonably sure mean sex. It allows for obfuscation by people who want to avoid public scrutiny and push through changes that don’t have widespread support amongst the general public.

If nothing else it’s nice to have this thread as a resource for quick reference!

Just discovered a leaflet for the New Conservative Party which I'd put aside for recycling.

Under the section labelled Community

It is a scientific fact that there are only two biological genders. Gender ideology should not be taught in schools.

Sex instead of 'gender' would have been clearer, but at least there is a recognition of the basics of biology.

It's not a party I would vote for because I disagree with their policies on other issues, but they do point out that 'rushed law changes put democracy at risk. Due diligence and consultation is essential for good law'. Quite.

Thanks @yourfaceisaforeignfood for clarifying. I’ll write to TOP and share here what they tell me.

Hi @Seraphinite (I’ve name changed)
I am so sorry I’ve realised when I was looking for a link got you that I was thinking of Damian Light’s (The former United Future leader) comments on Twitter and not TOP.

I can’t see anything on TOP at all bar an old interview (2017) with Mika, who was their then Auckland central candidate, ‘If a trans-prisoner wants to be in a female prison, then let them’. But it wouldn’t be fair to read that as necessarily representative of their position today.

I’ve included a screenshot of Andrew Little’s tweet that gave me concern so others can make their own judgement.

Argh, completely missed the post above stating they are pro trans rights. @Changethatlockandkey - can you point me to where you’ve seen they’re pro trans rights? I may have missed something obvious.

Does anyone know the stance of The Opportunities Party on women’s issues? I’m quite interested in some of their other policies but haven’t found anything yet on Self ID etc. I will write to them but would like to know if anyone has already discovered their views.

It’s so bloody typical of NZ to leap into this wholeheartedly and take it to its extreme - just as it looks like the rest of the world (well the U.K.) is beginning to think twice and pull back. The lack of consultation over this is astounding and it is so un democratic.

The constant massaging of the message by the media that all opposition is bigoted...that people who express reservations must be ‘educated’ out of their bigotry and/or ignorance. Whether it’s on self ID, redefining homosexuality as same gender attraction, or as you mention quixote not being sex work positive.

The rush to shut down genuine discussion over this as ‘hate speech’ is so worrying. I agree with you completely OtepotiLilliane42 if we cannot even give words to our fears we will be left with no way to fight back - there will be no argument we can make - we will simply be sidestepped and ignored.

I wrote to Tracey Martin - no reply,
Winston Peters (asking if he was discussing Tracey Martin redefining the word ‘woman’ at RSA’s 😂 because I couldn't imagine that it would go over well) - I got a reply saying there would be no reply.
David Seymour - I got two very thoughtful responses. I didn’t agree with everything he said but it was an honest and respectful engagement.
My local National MP - no reply. National are being utterly cowardly on this in my opinion, and are just avoiding the issue. On one hand I can’t blame them because of the toxic accusations that would be thrown at them if they did speak up and on the other hand I despise them for keeping quiet.
TOP are really pro Trans rights.
The Greens are fully on board, Labour is too. Andrew Little has already mentioned changes need to be made to The Hunan Rights Act to add gender discrimination definitions which I think is highly indicative that gender critical concerns will be cast as hate speech.
I’m not sure about about the Maori party.

I just feel so angry about this. I cannot believe how quickly it has happened and with such little recourse to the people primarily affected - women.

quixote9 The ACT Party website

www.act.org.nz/principles
www.act.org.nz/defending_freedom_of_expression

Freedom of expression is essential to a free society and must be promoted, protected and preserved without restriction other than for incitement, criminal nuisance or defamation.

There has been a lot of discussion on 'hate speech' and freedom of expression since the attacks on the Christchurch Mosques last year, which I admit I haven't been following until its relevance to discussion of transgender issues emerged with the proposed Self ID bill.

David Seymour thinks that the Prime Minister is confused as to what hate speech is according to this article, and I'm inclined to agree.

www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1911/S00252/pms-confusion-over-hate-speech-law-deeply-worrying.htm

www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121922974/hate-speech-law-stalled-until-after-election--no-support-yet-from-nz-first

I don't think that raising legitimate concerns about the implications of Self ID for women's rights could be described in any way as hate speech, and yet that is how it was immediately framed by certain Labour and Green Party MPs when questions were asked of the Select Committee that was overseeing the legislation. It was a good cop out as it meant that they didn't have to actually answer the concerns, which was their duty as MPs to their constituents!

The letter that my sister and I wrote to the Prime Minister last year on Self ID expressed astonishment at the behaviour of those MPs (all women) and asked that she support the rights of women to raise relevant questions of government legislation, but as I posted earlier we received no reply.

I don't agree with most of ACT's policies to be honest, but with regard to the principle of free speech I think they are right. When Simon Bridges was Leader of the National Party he defended freedom of speech on national television, and I don't suppose that view has changed even if the leaders have in the interim. I haven't contacted Judith Collins, the current National Party leader, what her opinions are, but will over the next few days.

www.facebook.com/1NEWSNZ/videos/nz-must-jealously-guard-freedom-of-speech-simon-bridges-says-amid-hate-speech-re/832090310471554/

All in all it's a depressing picture for the future of women's rights in New Zealand when the first instinct of government is to suppress debate by refusing to engage in rational and respectful discourse. It's profoundly undemocratic.

I am a single issue voter on this too OtepotiLilliane - and I read this below this morning . So it’s quite clear now a vote for Labour is a vote for self ID. And people who vote for Labour are voting for self ID. I have now decided to vote for Act who will at least offer protection of my right to protest this. It’s just awful. www.nzherald.co.nz/local-democracy/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504814&objectid=12364055
[Ardern] said she hoped to see the "completion" of a process to introduce self-identification of gender on birth certificates.

Changethatlockand key for the first time ever I am now seriously considering not voting at all in the October election. I was planning to vote Labour, despite their support of Self ID because I thought they might listen to reason if re-elected, but I now think they will steamroll everything trans related through if given the numbers.

So I don't think that you are catastrophising the situation at all unfortunately which leaves me with no one to vote for.

Well here is Tracey Martin’s parting salvo and a clear indication of what will happen under labour. No consultation, no chance to try and stop it. This is just utterly heartbreaking.

I know we all have different priorities and are in different places in our lives but I struggle to see how if being GC is important to you or opposing self id is Important to you, how you can vote for Labour or the Greens? They will bring it in and I think the chances of them expanding the definition of hate speech to include gender identities is extremely high - so you won’t be able to lobby against it -your heartfelt beliefs will be written off as hate speech, and those opposing it as bigots. I’m so utterly depressed by this announcement that I might be catastrophising it but I don’t think so. It’s just awful.

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12363313

I'm not interested in these vague promises they'll do better dishing out more cash, women are better off being given true opportunities to thrive rather than effectively being removed as a political class because people like Tracey Martin are shoving these changes in through the backdoor. I have confirmation from her that she's going to push it through via whoever is the next internal affairs minister. Labour supports this, as do Greens.

^^ agree with you so much. I have a good memory too, seems some forget. I worry for NZ if labour win again women are truly fucked.

Those two parties are the only options where women's rights might be recognised or at least women can get a fair hearing. My local MP is National and somewhat sympathetic. There is zero chance of any woman being heard once Labour, Greens and NZ First push through their plans. The minister for women won't even say the word "woman" that is how bad it is.

Of Ngati Maniapoto descent, have not forgotten Rogernomics and definitely won't vote Labour when they dish out $76 million borrowed cash to the horse racing industry while DHB's in Canterbury are having to cut staff and schools in Porirua are falling apart. They've had three years to make good on their promises and it's all talk, no substance. In fact it's worse, it's inertia and working off wishlists instead of what will benefit the country. It's blatant pork barrelling.

I'm not interested in these vague promises they'll do better dishing out more cash, women are better off being given true opportunities to thrive rather than effectively being removed as a political class because people like Tracey Martin are shoving these changes in through the backdoor. I have confirmation from her that she's going to push it through via whoever is the next internal affairs minister. Labour supports this, as do Greens.

Mana Wahine!

MillyMollyFarmer and Bananice I've twice now accidently deleted replies to your thoughtful posts, so I'm up giving up for the night, except to say that deciding which party to vote for in this election has become increasingly hard. I'm pissed off with Labour and the Greens for failing to understand why women are angry over the ill-considered Self ID legislation, but I won't vote National because I think they will introduce austerity measures which will be devastating for the country. I'll lobby hard against Self ID if it is re-introduced by whoever forms the next government, and continue to support groups like Speak Up for Women who have done such a good job to raise awareness that we might lose hard fought for sex based rights.

why do you assume that I’m a Labour voter, or that I’m advocating for those to vote Labour?

It’s pretty clear when your focus was to berate for considering to vote for the alternative.

A vote for labour is a vote for self ID and selling out women and girls.

@OtepotiLilliane42

«If Labour get back in after the October election with a reasonable majority they have a lot of work to do in housing, raising incomes, providing primary affordable health care (which includes dentistry), cleaning up the environment, re-thinking NZ's dependence on mass tourism ...»

I completely agree with this - I think there is a lot of work still to be done. I still haven’t determined who I will vote for as there are lots of complex issues to consider, however I certainly hope the next government is progressive

@MillyMollyFarmer why do you assume that I’m a Labour voter, or that I’m advocating for those to vote Labour? Quite frankly, Labour has been far less progressive than I’d hoped they would be.

I’m simply saying that if you’re advocating for women, being gender critical in my opinion is far from being the sole criteria for advocating for our rights. I tautoko trans women are women and would rather spend my time and energy reading through policies that bring equity to all marginalised members of our society, and voting accordingly. If you think I’m rude then so be it: I think democracy is a privilege and to have e some flippantly state that they can’t be bothered to read through policies to find out who they should support is infuriating. There are so many tools out there to break things down and help to educate ourselves. And if voting for a gender critical party means that one is aligning with the New Conservatives, then I suggest looking further into what else a party stands for

So I'll give my two ticks to Labour

Who intend to implement self ID.

If your biggest concern is women's rights, I'd suggest you read the policies for the parties on things that directly impact women, how we fare in our society, how the wage gap is being addressed and how Maaori and Pasifika female voices are being heard. Your options are going to be severely limited if you vote solely based on this criterion - and you should be very aware of the larger implications on women of the parties that are gender critical

Why aren’t women allowed to prioritise themselves and their rights? Why is any woman or any Māori or Polynesian automatically meant to vote labour? Why do you think labour is particularly good for women or for Māori? Because it isn’t.

If the words we use to describe ourselves become meaningless and include men, then we can’t advocate for ourselves and our rights. So nothing else labour supposedly do for women will matter, because that word includes men to them.

Labour certainly does nothing for Māori and they, like national, haven’t upheld the treaty and have no intention of doing so. Māori women definitely don’t owe them a vote. The shocking statistics around Māori health don’t improve under labour. Neither does domestic violence, child health and wellbeing or obesity, all those things we top the world in- perhaps we’re only the second fattest developed nation. The unicef report around children released should make every kiwi fucking horrified. Horrified

Your comment was so rude Bananice. Try being less patronising.

Bananice I'd rather not vote at all than vote for National, given the damage the party has done to this country every time they have been the government.I detested John Key, but before that Ruth Richardson and Jenny Shipley sent many famillies spiralling into poverty when they cut benefits and raised the state housing rents at the same time. It was a double whammy which my sister, who was a social worker at the time saw at first hand. And let's not forget the Lange/Douglas government of 1984, which many Labour party members have not forgiven.

I worry about the impact that Self ID might have on women's rights if there are no safeguards in any proposed legislation, but that is one issue among many to think about when it comes to looking at party policies.

If Labour get back in after the October election with a reasonable majority they have a lot of work to do in housing, raising incomes, providing primary affordable health care (which includes dentistry), cleaning up the environment, re-thinking NZ's dependence on mass tourism ... I could go on and on. So I'll give my two ticks to Labour in the hopes that Covid-19 permitting the next Labour government can be as progressive as they promised to be just three years ago.