Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

New York Times report acknowledges biological men in women's sports is unfair

42 replies

stumbledin · 29/08/2020 23:54

The New York Times took the question of transgender athletes to experts, and with a few exceptions, they came back with the same verdict: Allowing transgender women in women’s sports is unfair.

According to Dr. Eric Vilain, who has worked with the NCAA and the International Olympic Committee, gender identity and biological reality are “two almost irreconcilable positions” in women’s sports. Ross Tucker, who helped World Rugby draft its rules that concluded biological men should not be allowed in women’s rugby, said that we must choose between prioritizing “inclusion” or “fairness and safety.”

The piece focuses on testosterone, which highlights the clear advantage biological men have over women. A 2019 study in Sweden found minimal decreases in strength and muscle mass among transgender women after a year of testosterone suppression. Using data from World Athletics, the governing body for international track and field events, the New York Times relays that the lowest level of testosterone generally found in men is still four times higher than the highest in women.

www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/new-york-times-report-acknowledges-biological-men-in-womens-sports-is-unfair

OP posts:
Muttonindistress · 30/08/2020 08:56

@highame

Though in a way, it makes me even more frustrated that political parties and other big organisations are going along with trans ideology against public wishes. Perhaps all the recent sunlight will make a difference and of course, plenty of court cases - potential lawsuits can often be a mind changer
🤞
highame · 30/08/2020 08:40

Though in a way, it makes me even more frustrated that political parties and other big organisations are going along with trans ideology against public wishes.

Perhaps all the recent sunlight will make a difference and of course, plenty of court cases - potential lawsuits can often be a mind changer

Muttonindistress · 30/08/2020 08:29

@highame

The piece in the Times yesterday about JKR had over 1000 comments. Too many to read but I couldn't find one that wasn't supportive of JKR. The system got overwhelmed. Some comments were taken down but not many and some people just re-posted what they'd said ooooh rebellion Grin

Just thought you might like to know that Times readers are GC by a country mile

Yes, I saw that too. I must admit, I tend to skip to the comments on a lot of these articles, and I’m almost always encouraged by them. (I’m sure the Guardian turns them off because they don’t want anyone seeing what the general public think.) Though in a way, it makes me even more frustrated that political parties and other big organisations are going along with trans ideology against public wishes.
Delphinium20 · 30/08/2020 08:26

I read the NYTimes comments and they are overwhelmingly GC, with majority respectful towards trans people while stating unequivocally that trans women in women's sports is unfair.

highame · 30/08/2020 08:06

The piece in the Times yesterday about JKR had over 1000 comments. Too many to read but I couldn't find one that wasn't supportive of JKR. The system got overwhelmed. Some comments were taken down but not many and some people just re-posted what they'd said ooooh rebellion Grin

Just thought you might like to know that Times readers are GC by a country mile

Muttonindistress · 30/08/2020 07:53

I haven’t read the whole NYtimes article yet (just skipped to comments , which are encouraging) but the sub head One group prioritizes inclusion. Another group says we want fairness and safety. says it all.

Gncq · 30/08/2020 07:34

Transwomen in women's sports really is the be all and end all for the mantra TWAW.

EdgeOfACoin · 30/08/2020 07:13

There are often posters on this board who speak up in favour of allowing trans women into women's toilets and changing areas.

Are any of them in favour of allowing transwomen into women's sports, I wonder?

BrandineDelRoy · 30/08/2020 05:30

@Apollo440

The article gives the impression that there is majority support for trans women competing against women and there are just a few backward trump supporters holding out. The comments do not agree. They need to learn the Guardian's trick and turn off comments.
They usually do have the comments off for articles on trans issues. When they do allow comments, they general skew the direction of this article's comments.
bettybeans · 30/08/2020 02:32

Totally Albus.

The rush for 'inclusion at all costs' needs to be slowed down. Show why it's safe and viable first. Sign of the times though. Perform as ally first, ask questions later.

It's SPORT. If this doesn't demonstrate and illustrate just how much political and cultural society has lost its mind, nothing will.

AlbusSirius · 30/08/2020 02:29

I really wish they would stop talking about testosterone. Some male people (both transwomen and just plain ordinary men) have very low testosterone levels; that doesn't mean they should be allowed to compete against women.

I still don't understand why the onus is on sporting bodies to prove that letting biological men compete with biological women is unfair; surely the proof should be the other way around. The status quo (sport separated by sex) should remain unless it is proven beyond doubt that male people who identify as female have no advantage.

bettybeans · 30/08/2020 02:19

Sometimes I genuinely struggle to understand how this is even a debate. Sport (or most sports) have been segregated by sex for as long as females had their own categories. Sports people and athletes are so conscious of and tuned to the differences in our bodies.... then I remember that like many other industries they're governed by commercial/business people and susceptible to capture.

I'm so proud of world rugby and the way they approached it. They present a blueprint and template for other sports to follow, to do the same evidence led examination. I hope they take it.

Apollo440 · 30/08/2020 02:19

The article gives the impression that there is majority support for trans women competing against women and there are just a few backward trump supporters holding out. The comments do not agree. They need to learn the Guardian's trick and turn off comments.

Durgasarrow · 30/08/2020 01:38

How can they be serious--"two sides."

ErrolTheDragon · 30/08/2020 00:39

The actual report in the NYT had me Hmm quite a bit.

www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/sports/transgender-athletes-womens-sports-idaho.html

Original poster
stumbledin · 30/08/2020 00:34

Yes I really only posted it so that there is a reference to it in the see of trans advocacy over running women's sports.

So angry that people with the relevant knowledge of biology are just sitting on the side lines.

On the one hand we get reports that by only testing medicine of men it puts women at danger, and then the next moment they seem to be saying there's no real difference.

Sometimes it just feels like being Alice in Wonderland. But a nightmare.

OP posts:
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 30/08/2020 00:26

Thanks for reporting this good news, Stumbledin. Another outbreak of sanity. The more experts speak up, the safer it becomes for others to join them.

Swipe left for the next trending thread