Caitlin Moran in the Guardian today

What I love about CM: she can be hilariously spot-on in her observations of people and life; I’ve always enjoyed the way she seems to speak to me and my class/cultural background. I saw the feature in the G today and thought ‘great, something that’ll make me laugh and think.’ Sadly, there was too much evidence of what I like a bit less: her sweeping generalisations being a case in point (plenty of which already pointed out on this thread). Also, she’s too young to claim the crone title. Way too young....

@Hardbackwriter That would make sense. I could see them wanting selfies with her, as she's a celebrity, but group wanking clubs - no. No more so than adult women would compare notes in a friendship group about their masturbatory habits.

Sorry, toddler shenanigans means I posted too soon. ...The confidence of her voice, but as PP have expressed I'm just so disappointed at her lack of knowledge of feminism/hinterland as time goes on. It feels like her own story has been of sufficient interest to her.

I read CM's columns in my early 20s and was so in awe of what she had achieved at such a young age and the confiden

Sorry I meant she was born in 1975.

Thanks- 1975 to be exact.

And also why does she always make a stupid face in her photographs?

Because she’s one of those slightly annoying people who think they’re a bit zany/wacky? But actually they’re a bit tedious?

I actually think that there have been always been a fair few savvy working class girls in the cities who, at a young age, figured out the thread of media and learned how to play it as CM did. The difference is, we realise that if we go into that space at such a young age there is always going to be a limit on how one can brand one self. If you come through as a bright, young thing you need to have a solid foundation to get you beyond that shortlived and very competitive stage. It's a bit of a one trick pony and very one dimensional - not something you would want to build your professional identity on as it will define you, which I think is where CM is.

Also who reads their own books 'every few years'? I can understand reading it if a new edition is coming out or even I guess if you're writing a follow up, but that just sounds like narcissism.

And also why does she always make a stupid face in her photographs?

And finally, no self-respecting teenage girls would idolise Caitlin Moran, and certainly wouldn't need her permission to masturbate. That story sounds like sheer (creepy) fantasy.

@Beamur ditto, I balked at reading 'How to be a woman' probably my issue entirely but I take umbrage at someone else's generalisation of what it takes / means for me to be a woman.

(I've never read the book so maybe I'm missing the point).

I actually really enjoyed 'How to be a woman'. I didn't take it as an instruction manual on how to perform womanhood, but an exploration experiencing womanhood (although if it were new out now in the context of TRA and radfem debates it would probably come across differently). I thought it had some feminist ideas in a funny mainstream accessible way and actually straddled libfem and radfem.
But - it did not invent feminism. CM did not invent feminism and was not the first to write about feminism. And her work since then has gone downhill and a bit overly woke. I didn't even bother finishing 'how to build a girl'.

@pelleas I wonder if it reflects the fact that because she went into an adult world very young and after being homeschooled, she never actually spent much time in a group of teenage girls? I can't imagine anyone who had a) thinking that they needed a book to discover masturbation and b) that that was a plausible social interaction in any way.

@lucylocketspockets

Well, I guess it was progress of a sort . I remember my mum complaining about us wearing DMs as they weren't feminine and my grandmother astutely pointing out that my mother's feet were ruined from wearing stilettos as an adult and that we had more sense!

We had girls who drank pints labelled as ladettes

The label was 'butch lesbian' in my day.

The Guardian has opened up comments on the article, they are very similar to the ones on here.

And lastly, (because it is so good) someone mentioned Stevie Nicks

Or Blondie who really understood about creating an iconic image

Jackie Fleming cartoons.

serenada 😁 guilty was charged

How can The Guardian, of all papers, publish such rubbish? (Presumably because they think it sells...)

Do Guardian editors/sub-editors not remember their own glory days when they published the wonderful Jill Tweedie columns and the equally wonderful Posy Simmods cartoons?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Tweedie

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posy_Simmonds

As young feminist women, they were some of the highlights of our week!

I mean compare the Spice Girls to this lot.

@Deliriumoftheendless

A fellow child of 80s daytime TV, I see.

Yes @lucylocketspockets

It is frightening. I know for some, The Spice Girls were liberating but I remember that time very clearly. We had girls who drank pints labelled as ladettes and a space, areal, tangible space had opened up to be filled with real material and people that could lift girls forward and it got filled instead with a media, image based idea of what a girl is - the Spice Girls incorporated that so we had instead caricatures of identities: sporty, posh, etc. They were defined so much by an idea that a girl/women doesn't have a real identity therefore can be used to hook a fantasy on. This was also the time of lads mags and 'normal' girls doing pinups and the start of violence with women in ordinary TV shows being normalised. By that I mean, this was teh first tiem you saw a woman in a TV show fighting another woman and being hit back(other than In Prisoner Cell Block H tyope stuff). So, we had Buffy and Charmed and all these other cutesy girls getting absolutely punched and kicked and the subtext was 'you have to learn to fight back' but physically so the girls kicked back in high heels without breaking a nail. It was really noticeable to me, as I had never seen women fighting like this before and it was sold as empowering but didn't convince me for a second. It struck me then, as now, as normaliseing violence on and to, women's bodies.