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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Caitlin Moran in the Guardian today

434 replies

RoyalCorgi · 29/08/2020 11:17

I promise I'm not trying to start another argument about Caitlin Moran. It's just that I want to record my annoyance and despair at her rewriting of history. Apparently in the 1980s there were no female role models for girls apart from Mrs Thatcher and Miss Piggy. And no one ever wrote about female masturbation until Caitlin wrote about it in her 2011 book. Plus more in that vein.

I remember back in the 80s reading Dale Spender's marvellous book "Women of ideas and what men have done to them" where she painstakingly writes in detail at the lives of amazing historical women - scientists, philosophers, writers, campaigners - and looks at how they were simply forgotten about and written out of history. Thanks in part to Spender's work, female historians went about the business of researching more forgotten women and writing their biographies.

Now it seems as if all the work of feminists in the 70s and 80s on, for example, female sexuality or in political campaigning has just been forgotten about. Feminists hadn't achieved anything of note until Caitlin Moran wrote How to be a Woman.

Once again, women's achievements are being written out of history.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/29/caitlin-moran-reread-how-to-be-a-woman-marvel-what-i-got-wrong

OP posts:
MaggieAndHopey · 30/08/2020 10:34

@IfNotNow123

Love and Rockets comic books ❤️ about a group of young Mexican-American punk girls. That was 90s, I think. Loved that!
Me too!
Pelleas · 30/08/2020 10:29

In your view it’s nonsense.

Well, there's been an abundance of evidence on this thread to show that CM was not the first or even one of the first to write about masturbation etc. in her 2011 book, so I don't think it's just a 'view'.

Even if it was just my view, though, would that matter? I don't think journalists should write without doing some research first.

I'd have no problem with CM saying that her 2011 book had brought those topics to a new audience, because it might well be the case that her book happened to be the first one that people who were teenagers in 2011 picked up.

But saying that those subjects were taboo and rarely written about before 2011 is sheer, unadulterated nonsense.

LittleBearPad · 30/08/2020 10:22

In your view it’s nonsense.

It’s entertainment. Let’s face it the Guardian article is an advert for her book, that’s all. It’s pretty much the same as the one in the Times a week ago. I, for the most part, like CM and her columns on a Saturday make me smile. Plus the photos for this book do seem to have lost the zany expression.

Pelleas · 30/08/2020 10:07

She’s a popular journalist, she’s not an academic.

That doesn't give her a free pass to write nonsense, though.

LittleBearPad · 30/08/2020 10:01

@Pelleas

I find it hard to believe CM didnt know about this.

Even if she didn't, shouldn't journalists research their pieces before publishing them? The question of what resources/role models were available for women at different times prior to 2011 could very easily be researched on the internet.

I think you, among others, may be taking this too seriously.

She’s a popular journalist, she’s not an academic.

WendyHoused · 30/08/2020 09:56

It’s because of this thread that I have learned She Bop is about wanking, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for this. I had only remembered the chorus, but the full lyrics had me in stitches.

Cyndi Lauper, absolute goddess.

merrymouse · 30/08/2020 09:54

(BTW, I would like to apologise for my earlier misspelling of Judy Blume's name!)

merrymouse · 30/08/2020 09:53

Of course CM knows about all of these people. She has made at least one TV programme on the 'Queens of British Pop' which according to IMDB featured many of the people discussed on this thread.

www.imdb.com/title/tt1431549/

However, their existence doesn't suit the purpose of the story she is trying to tell in this particular column.

Pelleas · 30/08/2020 09:43

I find it hard to believe CM didnt know about this.

Even if she didn't, shouldn't journalists research their pieces before publishing them? The question of what resources/role models were available for women at different times prior to 2011 could very easily be researched on the internet.

merrymouse · 30/08/2020 09:41

Feminism is at its best when it looks like freedom. When it remembers that you must never underestimate the importance of progress looking like it could, among other things, be fun.

I sympathise with any woman who has a public profile - I'm just an anonymous commentator on a forum. I can understand why its easier to be vague. However, this makes no sense if you can't explain who needs the freedom and why. Otherwise feminism is just a vacuous slogan on a notebook in Paperchase.

merrymouse · 30/08/2020 09:37

Not the topic of the the thread, but if the Guardian were in a position where it couldn't find a permanent home for a journalist like Hadley Freeman, given her CV, its the end of the Guardian and a really bad sign for journalism.

bellinisurge · 30/08/2020 09:29

These are the women I was looking at as a teenager. It's a fucking shame that younger women didn't have this.

DonnaQuixotedelaManchester · 30/08/2020 09:25

Great picture

Caitlin Moran in the Guardian today
Floisme · 30/08/2020 08:47

Sorry I've missed a load of posts - that was to an exchange made hours ago Blush

Floisme · 30/08/2020 08:46

Hadley Freeman has a column in Guardian Weekend, which they've announced they're ditching. But she writes for the daily Guardian too - most of her interviews for example. So her future might be uncertain but she has a foot in both parts of the paper and she's def still writing for them at the moment.

NeedToKnow101 · 30/08/2020 08:41

@LunaNorth

Oh my word that Stevie Nicks video has done something to me Blush

😍

@LunaNorth - to your beef curtains? Wink Sorry I recognise you from another thread.. 😂😘
NeedToKnow101 · 30/08/2020 08:39

Cerys Matthews show on 6 Music is just brilliant. She goes so deep into the roots of the music.

EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus · 30/08/2020 08:32

Love Catatonia, my Spotify WFH playlist is full of them.

LunaNorth · 30/08/2020 05:51

Oh my word that Stevie Nicks video has done something to me Blush

😍

ALittleBitofVitriol · 30/08/2020 01:54

Thank you, I had totally forgotten about catatonia et al! I friggin loved Road Rage, haven't heard that forever. 💜

HeIenaDove · 30/08/2020 01:44

I bought Scarlet magazine when i was in my early thirties (it ran from 2004 to 2010) I find it hard to believe CM didnt know about this. Im two years older than her. One of its taglines was no diets. They never printed a diet in Scarlet. There was some good writing in there. And an erotic short story section....Cliterature.

I remember the Black Lace books too Our local John Menzies had them on a top shelf tucked away in a corner at the back of the shop back in the 90s. (i found out about these when i got one free with a copy of New Woman) Another mag i loved. I still remember which BL book it was. The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea by Cheryl Mildenhall.

Scarlet had a BL book free with the mag a couple of times too.

merrymouse · 30/08/2020 01:10

Hadley Freeman has a piece in today’s Guardian.

DonnaQuixotedelaManchester · 30/08/2020 00:33

Did you like Deborah Orr ? Suzanne Moore?

DonnaQuixotedelaManchester · 30/08/2020 00:33

Hadley Freeman is sooooo good on some stuff. I would like to read her book (about her grandparents) She does 80s popular film well.

I think she has been let go - not 100% sure.