Autism

My DS is autistic and most definitely gender critical. He's 13 and unfortunately its caused issues at school as his friends (the few he has) believe you can change sex. He doesn't understand how they can be in the top set for science like him but deny basic biology.

I am very skeptical and I think that is part of my particular brand of autism. I wish critical thinking was taught early on in every school because for some reason right now a lot of people think personal beliefs are always as good as facts.

Haven't I seen threads on Mumsnet before where it's claimed that autistic people are vulnerable to indoctrination?

I'm not ASD but these replies are very interesting, thank you. I don't really understand how someone who is ASD thinks/see things so hearing your experiences is very illuminating.

I don't quite know why the thread got bumped but it's an interesting one. I'm gender critical as fuck and currently waiting for an ASD assessment having shown strong traits with the screening questionnaires.

As for who wanted to know what benefit a diagnosis would have for me... it's putting jigsaw pieces of my life and never quite fitting right or engaging fully with people into place, and all those times I got bollocked at school for being rude and saying something inappropriate and sat there wondering what the fuck I'd done wrong and assuming I was just a bad kid, and also the things I've really struggled with since covid hit - it explains so much of how my life has panned out and it's just giving me a better understanding of how my mind could be wired up. It's also the fact that I've got a suspicion that at least one of my kids is on the spectrum but masking the buggery out of it at the moment so no one will take me seriously - and if I know I am, it adds weight to someone at least listening to me about the bairn.

No it won't change anything about me as such but it might add some explanatory footnotes to how I am.

Me.

I don’t trust fb groups because I’ve seen the lengths the autistic community will go to to
Doxx and shame people who don’t follow their groupthink.

I did try joining a group once but despite its name it wasn’t just for autistic people and turned into the self dx’d admins quest for a diagnosis story.

I'm autistic and I think I might be gender critical as much as I understand it.

When I was a child I thought I was a boy for a while, but in those days (1970s) I think that was pretty normal - there were lots of tomboys. But I always thought being a woman/girl was about biology, and that gender was all the stereotypes people/society created about male and female, but not fixed facts.

I can imagine if I was young now I might think I was trans and get very invested in the identity and ideology. I've had periods in my life where I've got hugely involved, practically and emotionally, in various political/justice campaigns e.g. for a while my whole life was about a particular environmental issue - I spent my time either researching it, campaigning, doing practical action, discussing with others in the campaign. My identity was very tied to it and it felt like I was doing something really important. I imagine being in the trans movement now might feel like that.

But my understanding is that most trans people don't seek surgery and are living with their birth biology, so why does there need to be any association claimed between the way a person chooses to dress and behave and their biological sex? I don't really care about what pronouns, clothes, etc other people choose, but stuff like make up, heels, skirts and subordination are definitely not an intrinsic part of being female, and I wonder if there are young women who are absorbing that message and thinking "I must be trans" because they don't fit the 'female' stereotypes.

For people who are (presumably happily) living with their own biology, is it naive to wonder why we can't all just dress and behave in the way that we find appealing without needing to link that to biological sex? Am I GC or have I misunderstood the whole debate?

DD, DS and me.

I am grateful the whole gender identity trans activist movement did not exist when I or DD were teenagers because both of us were terrible at fitting in with other teenage girls and found boys much easier to talk to - generally about rather geeky things. I can quite see how both of us could have fallen for the "that's because you're not really a girl," line.

Instead we grew up, found more people like us and also that the majority of us (neuro-divergent and neuro-typical) all get rather better and rather more tolerant when mixing with different types with age.

One thing I suspect that especially infuriates us because we are autistic is recording false data. Attributing crimes to women which have been committed by trans women feels so wrong as to be painful. As does altering birth certificates and the recent fiasco by ONS over the census. We detest the idea of enshrining lies in the official record.

@MeadowHay really interesting and thank you!

I have an autism/Asperger's diagnosis and I'm GC. I've always been GC since I first thought about it in sixth-form about ten years ago, but I didn't know there was a name for it, and I actually called myself 'non-binary/agender' because I didn't believe in gender and didn't identify with 'woman' as a gender. This had nothing really to do with any issue with my sex and my biology though. It's not until very recently I've developed the language I needed to discuss this all with more clarity. I would say I am not really a reflection of my upbringing, although my DPs did try they do both have very fixed underlying views about gender/sex, particularly my DF who unfortunately is very sexist (although I didn't realise this until probably around the same age that I started calling myself non-binary, hah...). I don't know many other autistic people for comparison, but one of them I know has a long-distance mostly online financially exploitative 'relationship' with a transman, and my other friend has two siblings who identify as trans, one is a transwoman and the other I think identifies as non-binary but is not gender critical so a completely different kettle of fish to my position even as a teen. I do wonder whether a lot of young people calling themselves non-binary are actually gender critical, they may just not have the tools and language to express it properly. It's also difficult if you don't have anyone to speak to about it because when I was looking into gender as a teen and using language like 'non-binary' the web and LGBTQ youth groups were putting me into contact with trans people and because everyone else I knew didn't understand my position that gender didn't exist/didn't accept some of my gender nonconforming decisions or desires etc, you feel othered and when you're autistic you already feel 'different' and 'othered' as it is. That feeling of being othered leads you to seek out LGBTQ groups and they accept you as non-binary under the trans umbrella. They treat you kindly if you call yourself that but obviously that's on the premise that you agree with things like TWAW and so on, and I didn't have a position on things like that initially, so you become influenced by these groups easily as they're more accepting and accessible than gender critical feminist youth groups or whatever, of which there were none locally! Sorry for the ramble and hope that might be vaguely interesting reading for someone.

I have a kid on the spectrum, but I was always against stereotyping from when she was tiny so she had it from an early age that boys and girls can like whatever they want to and do whatever they want. I did it so much that she hid the fact she liked some "traditionally girly" things I'm not worried about gender issues with her.

She met a transman once and was confused at the dissonance between the name this person had and the evidence before her eyes. We have an ongoing open dialogue about it.

As an aside, there's a growing social media purity mob happening centered around autism. It has all the usual hallmarks.

Also one thing that pisses me right off...

Autistic women need to be shouting from the rooftops about the sexist nature of assessment and diagnosis. Women and girls have been let down terribly by the health services and Nero diverse community and many have suffered as a result!

@Suffrajester thank you for posting your link and what you’ve said. My DD was diagnosed when 8, young for girls but it breaks my heart to think we could have got a dx younger if we had understood autism in girls better as we had ‘boys’ autism as our benchmark.

After her diagnosis I started to follow lots of female autistic speakers/writers to try to get a better understanding. I’ve slowly had to stop following most of them due to their views on gender and TWAW.

But what I feel so so strongly about is that I want my DD to be excepted however she presents. She likes short hair but also likes dresses. So fucking what! She likes playing football and likes playing with her Barbies. Brilliant. These are just clothes, hair and activities they have fuck all to do with her sex.

But I can see her struggling as we come up to puberty so I am talking so much about it with her, to make it as normal and comfortable as possible. Also my biggest worry is the information she gets via the internet and her peers.

I hope to find the autistic GC community for her!

I just did the above Clinical Partners test and got 22/30!

I don’t have a diagnosis and I am not currently seeking a diagnosis. However, in recent years, reading about how ASD presents in women and girls has lit up many a lightbulb for me.

Interestingly, I believe if I was a teenager today, I would have been up to my neck in the trans nonsense. The ideology seems particularly attractive to ASD girls and this rings true for me.

www.clinical-partners.co.uk/for-adults/autism-and-aspergers/adult-autism-test

Please define acronyms in first usage. What does GC mean?

It means gender critical. It's the perspective that people should not be limited by gender expectations and so the idea that people can change gender is meaningless because the gender binary is (or should be) meaningless. Rather, according to the GC perspective, the only meaningful difference is sex (biological gender) which cannot be changed.

For myself, I am not autistic, and I started out as a GC radical feminist, but I feel more and more uneasy with it, especially the discussion on here. It seems to lack nuance, and the frequent citing of male anti-feminists makes me distrust the idea that it's a view that arises naturally from feminism, although it does sometimes seem to (eg Kathleen Stock). It's like, it needs to evolve, but it doesn't, its stuck somehow.

I can absolutely see how autistic girls in particular get dragged into the trans stuff because the stereotypes of "oh you have a vagina, so you musz love pink and glitter and unicorns" make zero sense to autistic people in general because they aren't rational. Then somebody scews that challenge into "oh you must be male then". No. Being male is about having a penis and male DNA and biology. My som is very sensitive, my daughter is a whirlwind and I fear for anybody who crosses her. 😂 Personality and sex are not the same. "Gender" seems to be some constructed way to attempt to force certain personality traits on people because of their sex, or tell them that they should deny their sex because they do not fit the stereotype?? It's baffling and weird and damaging and makes a world that's already confusing for autistic people even more complicated and weird.