Stonewall and the Welsh Government

I wonder if some of this is similar to what happened with stonewall.

When gay marriage was brought in, their main mission was gone. Would it be more difficult to get funding? Trans was focussed on as a new cause so a new income stream.

With women's services funding has always been hard. Bad stuff happening to women in kind of 'normal'. It's hard to get people to get worked up about it. Victim blaming is standard etc etc. Are some women's services getting behind this so proactively because of funding? I mean above and beyond the fact that services have been told to qualify for funding they have to be a single gender service rather than single sex.

Well done FOIrequester and thanks for sharing

Yes, the WAG wants to be very different from Westminster yet suffers from similar problems, including being South-East centric just like Westminster. You only have to go to Carmarthen and you're in a very different conservative and traditional world where in many ways not a lot has changed in the last 40 years. Labour, Plaid's front bench and the Libs are out of step with their constituency on so many things.

That's very true, although much if not most of this nonsense is centred around Cardiff. It doesn't really reflect the rest of Wales.

[quote FOIrequester]Are Plaid any better than Labour on this?

The current leader of Plaid, Adam Price, agreed with this statement by former leader Leanne Wood.

record.assembly.wales/StatementOfOpinion/102[/quote]
No they're not better, although they don't have a reputation yet of culling or witchhunting GC candidates or members.

See my earlier post. Plaid have lost the plot. They cannot or will not tackle harder issues (the ones that people actually vote them in for) so they flag wave 'easier' ones like this - ones that will appeal to their younger voters in Cardiff.

@Patriciawentworth I'm from the North, and I really think that a lot of people are unaware of Plaid's position on the whole issue. Most people in those communities think that it's bollocks too.

Yes, it's appalling what's happened in Wales. I lived there 2003-2008 and because I work in sector in which women are still very under-represented I was invited to get involved with a couple of women-into-STEM-type projects. I'm still in touch with several of the women I met through that and I'd heard that Chwarae Teg had gone over to the dark side. I met several politicians — Jane Hutt, Jane Davidson, Edwina Hart, Helen Mary Jones — who I trusted and had faith in at the time. Helen Mary Jones is the only one I'd trust now. She's Plaid, of course, so not in thrall to the Labour Party diktat.

Chwarae Teg is utterly lost Shed. Check out @virginiafenwic4 on twitter - total capitulation and an absolute betrayal of women. Subsidised by WG.

Well I've been doing some ferreting Slurpy & Shed ... looks as if several of the more active GC groups in Wales agree with you about the need for a strategic approach. My (very) reliable source says that they are now formally connected up with all the key UK groups and are working together on several fronts. Hopefully we'll start to see the results soon. And, equally hopefully, we can join in.

Given her background in women's refuges it's both surprising and shocking.

Yes, and she founded the Women's Workshop in Cardiff, which was pretty radical in its day. And headed Chwarae Teg, which I had some involvement with when I lived in Wales. That's why I said that I thought she was one of the last people who'd say TWAW. But she's Labour-right-or-wrong.

Realise I've left out the Labour influence. Hutt and Miles are Labour and Labour is pro-trans, so they couldn't really say anything but TWAW. I see a real schism opening up between my Labour-supporting friends, particularly among the Welsh ones because Labour is still powerful in Wales. I see several of my feminist, GC die-hard Labour contacts in Wales being suspiciously quiet on the transgender issue. I and all the other formerly reliable Labour voters I know are vocal about trans issues.

That's interesting Shed - would be good to let some media light in on this interlinked shambles. We've got a serious democratic deficit in our lack of Wales-based media - even for straightforward information, let alone opinion and debate. The MSM - print, online and broadcast generally forget that Wales exists at all. Or don't care either way.

Sadly I don't think Jane Hutt's lack of interest in supporting women's sex-based rights can be excused by 'lack of time'. The documents that the wonderful FOIresister has uncovered suggest that she has explicitly prioritised the needs and wishes of the trans lobby. Given her background in women's refuges it's both surprising and shocking.

There are lots of active individuals and small groups from what I know, most of them closed groups on FB. Covid has meant there's not much opportunity for people to meet up in RL.

There's someone on here doing sterling work on her own with FOI requests to the WAG. There are local groups in Cardiff challenging some of the things going on in schools and the Drag Queen story time events and so on. There are lesbian groups who focus their attention on Pride and Stonewall and UK-wide events and several pockets of ReSisters and WPUK supporters — but no one really heading things up and working/ thinking strategically and from a legal point of view.

This is my impression, anyway. I lived in Wales for some years and have friends who are actively engaged but don't feel focussed except at a local level in schools or opposing the Swansea City Council Toilet policy or whatever.

There really does need to be a GC group that monitors what WAG's doing and intervenes in a focussed way.

I hear tonight from my best Welsh correspondent that Wales's fiercest and most respected journalist is going to break the Drag Queen Story Hour story and we hope he'll go on to do more.

Wales is so desperate to be cool and progressive and radical (and has gained international kudos for things like the Future Generations Commissioner www.futuregenerations.wales and outdoor learning and free prescriptions) that I think some Welsh politicians can be persuaded into almost anything. Jane Hutt, who I met a couple of times when I lived there, is one of the last women I would have expected to say TWAW. I imagine she's busy, she thinks this is all really fringe and if Stonewall say TWAW then she takes her lead from them.

WPUK still has a presence in Wales along with various ReSisters groups and other online Women's groups too.

I'm trying to get myself rapidly up to speed on this, but we need to do something, don't we?
Is there really no organisation out there reminding WG that women exist, aren't ok with this and that it has impact? Shit.

They're not boring off letters, they're banging out letters.

Does anyone know what Helen Mary Jones is doing at the moment? She is a former AM and minister and spoke at the Cardiff WPUK event and she knows how the system works. When I last encountered her she was teaching at Swansea University and was possibly slightly handcuffed by that. She does have the kind of inside knowledge and the understanding of how to orchestrate a targeted campaign. I have lots of lesbian friends in Wales involved in ReSisters and GC feminist groups and they're all boring off individual letters but I think possibly we're a bit scattergun and need to organise more formally and develop a thought-through strategy for taking this on. Difficult, though, with Covid-19.

Just noticed the statement

'we believe that' accepts that it's a belief and not a fact.

There are some real issues about Welsh Government accountability.

For one thing, Wales is so strongly Labour that frankly if Welsh Labour brought in a policy of culling everyone’s first born, they’d still have a fighting chance of a majority in the Senedd.

For another, the regional press are utterly supine.

Having said that, there is an election coming up. If anyone GC wants to promote GC issues, the best way to do so would be to contact Conservative members of the Senedd. Make them make it into an electoral issue - because the idea of men in girls’ changing rooms, and of men in women’s rugby teams, will go down like a bowl of cold sick in the Valleys. It’s a policy that is completely at odds with values outside a few wealthy enclaves in Cardiff. Labour won’t want to take any chances by going into the election with the ‘penises in your daughters’ changing room’ banner held aloft in Ebbw Vale.

Conservative members are the way forward here, whatever your personal politics.

I find it depressing that Stonewall has such a hold on so many organisations in Wales. The Welsh Government has utterly and completely lost touch, maybe deliberately with its supporters. I think a large part of the problem is that they're based in Cardiff, a city I really like but seems to have become home to many English middle-class graduates who are very concerned about virtue signaling to make up for their privilege. The cultural and economic gap between the backgrounds of the Welsh students in my college compared to the English student (who were almost all privately educated) was very, very apparent.

Instead of tackling more difficult, complex things like rural unemployment, the massive problem of second homes in North Wales, erosion of Welsh speaking communities and the negatives of tourism etc, they have opted for waving the flag for 'easier' issues to tackle. Ones that take much less time to implement and ones that will help their PR in this city. Much like what Plaid Cymru are doing sadly.

Of relevance: there's a recent thread about Gender Critical Autistics with a speech by one member pointing out that 1.6% of the population account for 35% of referrals to the Tavi. It's not just women who are threatened by the gender ID ideology.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBplHRM3TBY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1zMgjevPo4PWPF0CVbWY1OkKrhOJ3AOmaUllYcqc5eTk5m6c3LugbccIw

I think you might be right Mejon - HMJ has essentially gone to ground on this one. She might be trying to influence things behind the scenes (as my MP suggested he was doing - without evidence of either action or impact) but the situation demands much more than that from our elected representatives. Probably won't hold my breath.

I'm in mid-Wales and I'd be happy to contact Helen Mary Jones but could do with some help with what to say if anyone more erudite would like to assist? HMJ has seemed fairly quiet on these matters since she spoke at that WPUK meeting. If Twitter's anything to go by she's been rounded on as a transphobe by the woke youth of Plaid Cymru and unfortunately the party line is TWAW.

Seems that even my sliver of optimism was misplaced OP. Democratic accountability is paper thin isn't it? Except where men (however they identify) are concerned.

The fact that just 2 Welsh Govt reps could meet with a single lobby group and then come up with this far-reaching statement is hugely worrying. Given the Scottish experience it sounds as if the EIA could be equally one-sided.