Joe Biden's plans for LGBT+

I find the multiple posters trying to discourage people from voting for Biden very interesting

its rather like the campaign that Cambridge Analytica ran in Guyana

lowered turnout for Biden plays right into Trumps hands

@HelloToMyKitty - yes I realise the system is very poor. I really liked the Beto O'Rourke guy at first (probably because he was youngish, handsome and part Irish) but he disappeared quickly.

I wonder why someone like Andrew Cuomo never ran, or someone like O'Malley in Boston never got traction. I really think the "stars" like Sanders and Warren are, like Corbyn, unelectable. They need a MOR centrist who is younger than Biden - where is that person and why were they not picked as VP?

And I am not sure that a woman would be elected in the US - they are, like Ireland, very misogynistic and anti-women at heart and women in the US have never really challenged this (look at maternity rights for instance).

Are they trying to tell us, that in the biggest economy in the world, with a global reach of ideas, the best they could muster to challenge Trump is Biden? Was there no one, male or female, under 65, who could step up? Has the party been so hollowed out post Obama that there is no one under 65 left?

Thing is, registered Democrats literally voted for the guy so you can’t exactly blame the DNC for this. I thought 2016 Warren would have been the right person (Clinton wouldn’t have accepted her running 🙄) but 2020 Warren went too far left and made herself unpalatable to the general public imo.

Its sad to watch the Democrats tell us that Joe Biden is going to save the US - in 2008 he wasn't good enough, in 2016 he wasn't good enough, but somehow, 12 years later as the world burns around us all, Joe is the man.

I watch all this in Ireland where we have a 100% Democrat supporting media - honestly, none of them saw the Trump victory (I did as I watch US news as well as Irish and read US newspapers online) but even I am shocked at how the Democrats have handed this to Trump.

Are they trying to tell us, that in the biggest economy in the world, with a global reach of ideas, the best they could muster to challenge Trump is Biden? Was there no one, male or female, under 65, who could step up? Has the party been so hollowed out post Obama that there is no one under 65 left????

And then to cap it all, they tried to appeal to the sceptics by adding Kamala Harris?

How is having a misogynist and a 'touchy-feely" guy running for president anything other than a sign that feminism does not exist in any meaningful way in the US.

I spent all my college summers there and hoped to live there - I did not get a visa and life happened. Now DD wants to go there to study but the last 9 months have made her reassess her views. I am sure she is not the only one.

You know, I absolutely know what he means about the Hispanic community - their voting patters as a group are more varied. But man, what a way to say it!

I would be interested to know if America has a ‘shy Trump voter’ phenomenon

Reagan voters were like this from what I’ve heard. Not all that farfetched (my family however are very proud Trump voters 😅). I would consider voting Trump if the rioting moves closer to home, but still plan on remaining apathetic.

How many other posters on this thread are registered US voters?

Also remember that Clinton won the popular vote. Polls aren't everything.

@TBHno

Isn't Biden the clown who said that black people weren't black unless they voted for him?

He also said:

"By the way, what you all know but most people don't know, unlike the African American community with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly different attitudes about different things. You go to Florida, you find a very different attitude about immigration in certain places than you do when you're in Arizona. So it's a very different, a very diverse community,"

Yes I worry that if Biden gets in, the Democrats will just become complacent and think the world’s back to normal now and it will cause worse trouble further down the line.

What do you think the impact of Covid will be?

I think there's also the apathy phenomenon, where voters will tell a pollster they support Labour (or whoever) and genuinely mean it, but who, when push comes to shove, aren't motivated enough to turn out and vote. From what I could gather, that's partly what did for Clinton.
It's why I think the incumbent always has the advantage and why you need a positive, hopeful message, and not just fear and shaming to get them out.

I would be interested to know if America has a ‘shy Trump voter’ phenomenon in the same way as we have had shy Tories who don’t admit their true voting intention even to pollsters.

www.adweek.com/digital/the-most-active-10-of-twitter-users-are-responsible-for-80-of-tweets-overall/amp/
www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/04/24/sizing-up-twitter-users/

They both made the mistake of thinking that social media is equal to real life. When 10% of Tweeters make 80% of Tweets it doesn't translate to the ballot box. Also as someone else said telling potential voters that they "are stupid/don't know what they're voting for" etc is not exactly the way to get them to vote for you. Most people will keep quiet and answer at the Ballot Box.

Yup.

But I do consistently wonder, how do the people working for the Democrats not get it? It's like a kind of blindness. And the same for the LP.

And yes to this:
It's also what attracted many people to Trump, and the Clinton campaign fell into the exact same trap, talking again and again about how immersed she was in a government many people have mainly negative feelings for,
From where I was sitting, the fact that Trump was a maverick and an outsider even in his own party, seemed to be a big part of his appeal. And somehow, after a term in office he seems to have managed to hang on to that 'no-one likes me' image. Trying to impeach him - which, from what I could see, was never going to succeed - played right into his hands.

Yes plus it's human nature. You!re trying to win over people who either didn't vote or who voted against you last time. How iis repeatedly telling them, 'You did a stupid / wrong thing and, if you don't put it right, civilisation will come to an end and it'll all be your fault' ever going to work?

It's such a stupid tactic. Some Labour voters tried it on here in December and look how that ended. I can't believe I'm seeing it again.

Standing for the status quo or business as usual in the US is not a strong message, because so many people are so alienated from that already.

It was interesting when Obama was running, one of the criticisms the Republican campaign harped on about was his lack of experience. Which completely backfires, someone who was not immersed and beholden to the political machine was what people liked about him. In bringing it up constantly it was a complete own-goal.

It's also what attracted many people to Trump, and the Clinton campaign fell into the exact same trap, talking again and again about how immersed she was in a government many people have mainly negative feelings for, which they see as out to get them or uncaring. They pushed this Democrats are kind business, caring for people, antiracism is good, when BC oversaw the dismantling of what passed for a social welfare system and imprisoned more black men than ever.

People aren't as stupid as they seem to think, if you keep telling them you are good, and you screw them over, they stop believing you. You can promise change like Obama, and then you are the same, well those promises no longer hold much water.

They've destroyed their own credibility big time. Biden is a system guy, not an outsider, they will struggle to convince people he will change anything. The Democrats have no one but themselves to blame for their troubles and ultimately they bear as much responsibility as the Tea Party types and the MAGA types for what is likely to be a failed state within the next 100 years.

There have been some interesting discussions on Pod Save America about the campaign choices. The hosts all worked in the Obama White House so not going to pretend they aren't Democrats with their own take on things, but if you want to hear some less negative thoughts about why choices were made it's there. They questioned Biden's choice to run on character and stability, but there was a primary with a lot of other candidates - much more real choice than in 2016 -and that's what the electorate went for. Overwhelmingly. Most of my friends were Elizabeth Warren supporters but are happy to support Biden now.

crooked.com/podcast-series/pod-save-america/

I know someone who worked in the Obama White House in a lowly capacity but spoke very highly of the team there. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a smart, highly competent team behind Biden. BUT if the Democrats can't get the Senate, then it's going to be rocky like it was for Obama.

I know it's tempting just to sink into negativity because the leadership in the UK and US has been so poor, but it's worthwhile trying to be hopeful.

That's disheartening Goosefoot I don't pretend to know US politics well but, in the UK, I would say that, if you're up against an incumbent or an existing social order, then you've a much better chance if you have a positive, vigorous message:

'Take back control' - I'm still a remainer but that was a brilliant campaign.
Cameron posed with huskies and cycled to work (followed by a photographer I assume but effective).
Blair - 'Things can only get better'. The Tories tried to portray him with devil eyes. Everyone laughed.
Thatcher in 1979 did use a 'Labour isn't working' - negative message but balanced it with 'It's time for a change'.

I think negativity and scare tactics can work if you're already in power but I don't think they're enough , when you need votes from people who didn't vote for you before, which is why - and I repeat I'm not American - I find the Democrat reliance on 'he might be an idiot but at least he's not Trump' line thoroughly depressing.

The worst thing I think is the long term outcome.

If Trump wins, that's 4 years more of a leadership vacuum and further deterioration of the state. Bad.

If Biden wins, 4 years of Reaganism a la Clinton and Obama. And then there will be all the more appetite or something to stand against that, and all the more radicalisation of the population.

And maybe the next Trump won't be a buffoon, but someone smart, with a real political agenda.

I'm not even sure that a real alternate exists in any numbers in the US. It's not like the country really has a robust longstanding labour movement history like the UK, nor do they have a tradition of socialist conservatism to speak of.

But why is it all they have? That's what I don't understand. They've had 4 years to work it out.