Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another Scottish Health Board throws women under the bus

37 replies

334bu · 17/08/2020 14:49

I include here an excerpt from Greater Glasgow and Clyde Health Board transgender policy document on how to act if a woman complains there is a man in her ward

Inpatient Scenario:
A nurse is summoned to a patient’s bed in a female ward. The patient appears to be agitated. When
asked what’s concerning her, the woman explains she didn’t expect to be sharing the ward with a
man and points to the bed opposite. She states it’s inappropriate to have ‘him’ in the ward with the
other women. She tells the nurse she can’t relax and wants ‘him’ removed from the ward. If this
doesn’t happen she’ll make a formal complaint – the hospital has a duty of care to look after her and
they’re not taking this seriously by putting her in this situation.
The nurse listens and tells the woman she’ll see what she can do. She says that she understands
having a transgender person on the ward will be upsetting to other women and leaves to talk with a
senior colleague about the matter.
The response to the patient’s concern isn’t appropriate and breaches legislative protection afforded to
transgender people. Someone’s trans status can not be disclosed to a third party without the express
permission of the trans person and the assumption that others in the ward will feel uncomfortable is
unfounded. In this instance there is no need to either disclose or seek permission to disclose gender
identity. The nurse should work to allay the patient’s concerns – it would be appropriate to re-iterate
that the ward is indeed female only and that there are no men present. Her duty of care extends to
protect patients from harassment and should the woman continue to make demands about the
removal of the transgender patient and be vocal in the ward it would be appropriate to remind her of
this. Ultimately it may be the complainant who is required to be removed.

Gaslighting and punishing the victim!

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Jaxhog · 17/08/2020 18:27

men/non-men scenario as proposed by Scottish Greens

I think that's where we're headed. Except, of course, transwomen will still be women.

Jaxhog · 17/08/2020 18:25

I really, really wish we could make these official bodies distinguish between 'female' and 'woman'. I'd actually prefer distinguishing between 'woman' and transwoman', but it doesn't seem like will ever happen. A transwoman should NOT be allowed on a female-only ward if they are physically still male - they should be on a male ward. It should be pretty clear cut in a hospital!

NiceGerbil · 17/08/2020 18:20

Non binary people would go on preferred ward.

What if a male NB person feels more comfy on the female ward. The nurse can't say they are a woman because they're NB.

I mean it's all nonsense tbh.

fascinated · 17/08/2020 18:18

This HAS to be taken to court. Surely?

ThePurported · 17/08/2020 17:24

@Aesopfable

Surely by placing a male on a female ward they are in breach of ‘legislation about disclosing transgender status’ as what other justification can they give for placing him there?
They are working on the assumption that everyone knows and believes in the gender spectrum. A male on a female ward is a woman, obviously. The next step is to abolish 'trans' once the erasure of sex is complete. Or we might end up with some kind of men/non-men scenario as proposed by Scottish Greens.
Aesopfable · 17/08/2020 17:19

^not all of them, I am sure there are some who would be horrified to be on a female ward and recognise that women need privacy.

GrinitchSpinach · 17/08/2020 17:12
Angry
Aesopfable · 17/08/2020 17:11

I’m sure the trans woman would feel happier in a private room too.

No, because they don’t want to be on a female ward, they want to be on a ward with females.

PotholeParadise · 17/08/2020 17:08

@merrymouse

The ridiculous thing is that if you really want to protect the privacy of trans patients you need to give them a private room so that details of medication and treatment aren’t revealed to the person in the next bed.
This is why I thought this mess would never happen. Putting a trans patient in their birth sex or in the ward of the sex they live as outs them.

They need to be in private rooms, and that's what the trans rights movement used to lobby for!

FlamingoAndJohn · 17/08/2020 17:04

@merrymouse

The ridiculous thing is that if you really want to protect the privacy of trans patients you need to give them a private room so that details of medication and treatment aren’t revealed to the person in the next bed.
Quite.

‘Good morning Miss Jones, I’m just going to check your prostate’.

I’m sure the trans woman would feel happier in a private room too.

FlamingoAndJohn · 17/08/2020 17:03

What about the nurse, a medically trained person, having to deny biology?

What if the woman complaining is a rape or abuse survivor? Do her feelings count for nothing?

If the trans women in question has not had any surgery would they be in danger of missing out of sex specific examinations or being given in incorrect dose of a medication?

What about if it was the other way round? A trans man on a male ward? The thought of the young trans men I know spending a night on a male ward makes my blood run cold.

merrymouse · 17/08/2020 16:55

The ridiculous thing is that if you really want to protect the privacy of trans patients you need to give them a private room so that details of medication and treatment aren’t revealed to the person in the next bed.

WeeBisom · 17/08/2020 16:53

That is some crazy making bullshit. So you're in the ward next to an obvious bloke - beard and all. You complain to the nurse. And the nurse's response is to look around and say 'this is indeed a female only ward and there's no men here.' I'd feel like I was losing my mind. I was once delirious in hospital and was convinced there was an old lady trapped in my private toilet ( I was in a single room). The poor nurses had to reassure me that it was just me in there. I can't imagine how disorienting it would be to be told there' no men in the room when there is! This also just goes to show that the single sex provisions in the Equality Act are not being applied properly. In this scenario women do have a right to a female only space, like a ward, and it would have to be the male who is moved.

DianasLasso · 17/08/2020 16:49

Must be about 10 years ago on here (countless name changes back and de-reg in frustration/re-reg cos it's the scan I can't stop picking) where I raised this as a hypothetical situation. I said back then the end game could be women being denied medical care for "hate speech". I was told I was catastrophising.

Yet here we are.

highame · 17/08/2020 16:39

It would only take one court case. just one

Aesopfable · 17/08/2020 16:10

Treestumps Great minds..

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 17/08/2020 16:04

SNAP Aesop

JanMeyer · 17/08/2020 16:04

it's even worse than that! That was the example of the wrong, "transphobic" thing to say. The nurse is not allowed to acknowledge the possibility of vulnerable women being upset by the male's presence. The nurse is not even allowed to acknowledge that the male elephant in the room is male.

That was the "wrong" thing to say? Jesus christ, and there was me thinking medical staff acknowledging the patient's distress was important.
All this stuff makes my head spin, i don't suppose they've given any thought as to the impact this will have on autistic women, those with learning disabilities and any other vulnerable women? Don't they have to at least pretend to consider such things?

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 17/08/2020 16:04

Someone’s trans status can not be disclosed to a third party without the express permission of the trans person.

That one is a dilly of a pickle.

Surely if the woman has identified that the person in the bed opposite is a male, then by saying that that person is a woman, they've outed them? In fact, just putting them on the female ward has outed them!

Aesopfable · 17/08/2020 16:00

Surely by placing a male on a female ward they are in breach of ‘legislation about disclosing transgender status’ as what other justification can they give for placing him there?

Kantastic · 17/08/2020 15:51

That's some mighty interesting wording there, in other words they know it's upsetting but they've decided it's not important

it's even worse than that! That was the example of the wrong, "transphobic" thing to say.

The nurse is not allowed to acknowledge the possibility of vulnerable women being upset by the male's presence. The nurse is not even allowed to acknowledge that the male elephant in the room is male.

I would like to know the answer if 7 women in an 8 bed ward all continue to "be vocal" and "make demands" - will they all be removed?

it's likely to be the most vulnerable - i.e. elderly women, teenaged girls, women who are sick or weak - who won't make a fuss. The exact same group who would be most vulnerable to sexual assault should a predator decide that claiming trans status and being placed on a female ward is a great way of getting access to victims.

JanMeyer · 17/08/2020 15:33

She says that she understands having a transgender person on the ward will be upsetting to other women.

That's some mighty interesting wording there, in other words they know it's upsetting but they've decided it's not important. Not only that but their avoidance of using the word transwoman, transgender person is misleading, people could read that and think it refers to a transman, aka a woman.
But they can fuck right off with their "upsetting to other women" 😡😡 There is no "other women" because they aren't women for fucks sake

Someone’s trans status can not be disclosed to a third party without the express permission of the trans person.

I'm sorry but who the fuck wrote this? How stupid are these people? Or more to the point how stupid do they think we are? It doesn't need to be "disclosed." We can see what's in front of us. I mean if we couldn't tell someone was a transwoman their little scenario wouldn't happen would it?

334bu · 17/08/2020 15:29

Even if moved to another ward it might mean a reduction in care, eg an orthopaedic patient on a general medical ward will miss out on specialist nursing and perhaps physio which they would have received as standard if they had remained on the female ortho ward. Also, what if the female patient is intellectually challenged and putting them in a single room might put them at risk.

OP posts:
northstars · 17/08/2020 15:26

This is horrifying Sad What is happening in this country?!

NiceGerbil · 17/08/2020 15:24

They can refuse to treat people who are abusive I think

But I really hope it's the first

Who knows