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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transgender Vikings

108 replies

Igneococcus · 16/08/2020 06:38

Because no woman ever, anywhere could possible be or have been a fighter:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9d5d3654-de3c-11ea-a18f-15f41f6d2fa7?shareToken=e20112ff611d35bbb9ea3a4900f4b37f

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Needmoresleep · 18/08/2020 21:56

Viking women were kick ass. The Icelandic sagas are a wonderful read. The men went off raiding each summer, and it was very uncertain whether they would return. The women managed the small farms essentially on their own, storing food for the long winters, and were held in high esteem. They could also inherit and own property etc.

Given the isolation and the dangers they would have needed to be able to defend themselves.

RadandMad · 18/08/2020 19:04

Men colonising f*cking every aspect of womanhood.

CharlieParley · 18/08/2020 19:01

It is a review of the same book the Times writes about, but the way it's presented here suggests that Price actually poses that theory as a possible and probably flawed interpretation of the facts.

CharlieParley · 18/08/2020 18:58

@nauticant

This might be a better starting point to learn about the Vikings:

www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n16/tom-shippey/did-they-even-hang-bears

A more evidence-based approach acknowledging that the information is incomplete and contradictory rather than deciding on the conclusions to be reached beforehand.

Great link, thank you!
nauticant · 18/08/2020 18:23

This might be a better starting point to learn about the Vikings:

www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n16/tom-shippey/did-they-even-hang-bears

A more evidence-based approach acknowledging that the information is incomplete and contradictory rather than deciding on the conclusions to be reached beforehand.

nepeta · 18/08/2020 05:19

Well, women can have Stepford Wives and Barbie dolls and porn actresses as their new role models...

AnyOldPrion · 17/08/2020 16:38

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nauticant · 17/08/2020 13:21

I imagine Quentin Crisp would have had very definite ideas on which kind of Vikings he'd prefer.

NiceGerbil · 17/08/2020 13:06

Naked civil servant is a great film

Antibles · 17/08/2020 00:09

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stumbledin · 16/08/2020 23:57

I thought people had given up on this silly childish atttempt at transing the past.

But if it is allowed to continue we can look forward to finding out that out mothers / grandmothers who took on so many "male" roles in WWII were all in fact trans (well at least for 5 - 6 years).

Throught history some women have been accepted or disguised themselves to be in the "male" sphere. It is such contrived nonsense.

So desparate to validate their illogical position they just go over the the top - and as ever just so they are totally trapped in the reactionary mind set of gender roles being real.

Which reminds me I forgot to watch the Naked Civil Servant which was on tv tonight.

No doubt the trans activists would say Quentin Crisp was really a trans woman that society cruelly denied the right to "cahnge sex". Rather than appreciating him for his bravery in accepting his bilogical maleness but totally refusing to live by the male gender rules society sad he should have.

AnyOldPrion · 16/08/2020 22:06

“Price dismissed the idea that this is historians projecting contemporary values onto the past“

Price can dismiss it all he likes, but one thing is solid fact, and that is that even five years ago, nobody would have suggested such a thing.

This is so sickening to those of us who’ve spent a lifetime fighting against femininity, and have looked to these role models from the past for inspiration, and now selfish gits are stealing them and saying they were men all along. Well they can bugger right off.

DianasLasso · 16/08/2020 22:00

@TheHeartbeat

Why stop there? Make all the Viking’s LGBTQIA and get to the point you’re actually trying to make Stonewall.

#MarshaPJohnsonWasADragQueen #NowThatsAnInconvenientTruth

Well, the Vikings we possibly mistakenly identify as male did have long hair which they braided, so...
TheHeartbeat · 16/08/2020 21:51

Why stop there? Make all the Viking’s LGBTQIA and get to the point you’re actually trying to make Stonewall.

#MarshaPJohnsonWasADragQueen #NowThatsAnInconvenientTruth

SerenityNowwwww · 16/08/2020 19:47

I was watching a documentary about Queen Elizabeth 1st... oh yes, the theory was also suggested there.

SerenityNowwwww · 16/08/2020 19:46

I would love to have a time machine to send this ‘theorist’ back in time to put their theory to the woman herself.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 16/08/2020 19:05

The problem is that when people like her come out with such ideas your only response can be "yeah, cos it isn't new. There will always have been people who didn't fit their society's idea if male or female"

Because it's impossible to think otherwise.

That doesn't make her a genius, it just means she is recycling old information in new clothes. But whilst we can see it there is a significant swathe of our current society that won't hear that, will insist trans are groundbreaking and new... even whilst desperately pointing back into history shrieking "trans".

It just another example of cognitive dissonance in action. The joys of a splintered mind!

SteppedOnBloodyLego · 16/08/2020 18:38

»Amy Jefford Franks, an academic who is researching gender and pre-Christian Scandinavian religion and who presents the Vikings are Gay! podcast, said: “It is debated, but my view is that there were transgender Vikings and there were queer Vikings and that, while it was not widespread, it was on the fringes of acceptable culture.»

Amy Jefford-Franks works for Stonewall.

SonEtLumiere · 16/08/2020 15:29

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LillianBland · 16/08/2020 15:25

@NiceGerbil

Not RTFT

The find the article refers to,

I don't think they mention that the skeleton was assumed to be male for years because of the armour etc. Due to underlying sexist assumptions.

Then the DNA showed it was a woman. Cue lots of freak out. A female Viking warrior? What the hell? There must be an explanation for this that can get us back to a more comfortable view of what this is all about.

And voila! She was a man after all, trans! Everyone can relax again.

Exactly. Imagine if they had to acknowledge that women actually went to war and didn’t all follow ‘gender roles’! They would have to rethink their attitude towards females. Much easier to trans the strong women away.
NiceGerbil · 16/08/2020 15:15

Not RTFT

The find the article refers to,

I don't think they mention that the skeleton was assumed to be male for years because of the armour etc. Due to underlying sexist assumptions.

Then the DNA showed it was a woman. Cue lots of freak out. A female Viking warrior? What the hell? There must be an explanation for this that can get us back to a more comfortable view of what this is all about.

And voila! She was a man after all, trans! Everyone can relax again.

LillianBland · 16/08/2020 15:14

@SerendipityJane

No idea about Vikings, but it was fascinating to read that archaeologists had uncovered suggestions that Galli made it to Britain in later Roman times.

www.britannica.com/topic/Galli-ancient-priests

Galli, singular Gallus, priests, often temple attendants or wandering mendicants, of the ancient Asiatic deity, the Great Mother of the Gods, known as Cybele, or Agdistis, in Greek and Latin literature. The Galli were eunuchs attired in female garb, with long hair fragrant with ointment. Together with priestesses, they celebrated the Great Mother’s rites with wild music and dancing until their frenzied excitement found its culmination in self-scourging, self-laceration, or exhaustion. Self-emasculation by candidates for the priesthood sometimes accompanied this delirium of worship.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/1999734.stm

Archaeologists in North Yorkshire have discovered the skeleton of a cross-dressing eunuch dating back to the 4th Century AD.

Yes, the story of the fanatical males who castrated themselves in the belief that the goddess’s lover bleed to death after castrating himself to prove his love for her, is fascinating. However, it has nothing to do with them actually being trans. The religion consisted of priests who dressed as female goddesses to show their devotion to and it also consisted of priestess. Interestingly, they sacrificed children in order to prove their devotion.
DianasLasso · 16/08/2020 15:00

The thing that's new is the insistence that what made these females other is that they were men with a birth defect. In previous generations they were commonly viewed by sexist society as women with a birth defect.

Ain't that the truth. We've gone from women transgressing societal sex-stereotypes means "something is wrong with their lady-brains" to meaning "their gentleman-brain unfortunately got trapped in one of those inferior, penis-free bodies".

Gottalife · 16/08/2020 14:59

I wonder if there were objections by Viking wives to women serving on Viking ships like happened with our Royal Navy in 1990.

LadyFlumpalot · 16/08/2020 14:58

If the fact that I like cars, swords, computers, and I work in STEM means that I'm ACTUALLY a man, does that mean I can have a pay rise?

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