Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

“You can’t say “he” or “she” anymore, you have to say “the”.

58 replies

Mycatismadeofstringcheese · 15/08/2020 21:06

Just had a chat with my 13 year old niece. Apparently when she goes back to school in September they have been told that they can’t say “he” or “she” any more, they have to say “the” and gave the example, “The hit me”.

My niece couldn’t explain why, just that they have to do it.

Apparently my brother and SIL think it is ridiculous but don’t want to complain or cause trouble.

This is in Suffolk. Is anyone else aware of anything like this? For a second I thought she was joking until I realised she was absolutely serious.

I’m so upset and frustrated by this.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
SerenityNowwwww · 09/09/2020 19:31

I would call them.

‘Now I know that this may sound silly, and I’m sure it’s just kids making up tall tales but I’ve heard...’

nosswith · 09/09/2020 18:51

Surely brother and SIL can ask the school if this is true? That's a reasonable thing to do.

SerenityNowwwww · 09/09/2020 16:12

Aye, heeennnnnn

BrollyKnickers · 09/09/2020 13:17

@SerenityNowwwww

They’d better not try to film in Glasgow then...
Grin
SerenityNowwwww · 09/09/2020 13:01

They’d better not try to film in Glasgow then...

BrollyKnickers · 09/09/2020 11:51

I remember in one episode of the Bridge there was a scene in which one of the un-PC police officers was taking the piss out of Saga Noren for using the word "hen".

I'd recommend that show.

SerenityNowwwww · 09/09/2020 10:10

Farsi has no he or she. I am frequently misgendered... haha.

IheartJKR · 09/09/2020 09:34

@SonEtLumiere

Are there any languages with a gender neutral third person singular, ideally formal?

Actually there is.., in Sweden in 2012 a third gender neutral pronoun ‘hen’ was introduced as an addition to the already existing Swedish pronouns hon (she) and han (he).

The pronoun hen can be used both broadly when gender is unknown are regarded as irrelevant, and as a transgender pronoun for people who catogorise themselves outside the gender dichotomy. This is the first time that any language has so far added a third gender neutral pronoun, that has reached the wider population.

midgebabe · 09/09/2020 08:55

Yes, I think neutral pronouns as the default would be best, and neutral honorifics

When reporting a crime you could say "the man", or even use the legacy term "he"

It's about pretending sex does not exist, it's about stopping the continual reminders of sex, the continual separation of male and female where it actually should not matter

Think they would be better than the though

SerenityNowwwww · 09/09/2020 08:29

I love a good dad horse faced photo in the newspapers. My parents did one (local press but oh the shame!)

justanotherneighinparadise · 09/09/2020 08:11

If this is true it would make a wonderful sad face story for the DM.

Batshitbeautycosmeticsltd · 09/09/2020 08:09

That's just fucking ridiculous, compelled speech tyranny.

CasuallyMasculine · 09/09/2020 08:09

We’ve already seen what happens when crimes get reported in the press as having been committed by women, then you read the article and it’s clear as day that the person is male.

SonEtLumiere · 09/09/2020 08:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CasuallyMasculine · 09/09/2020 08:08

Why shouldn't I be able to just say "[that person] hit me", or "[that person] did anything else" without having commit to specifying that person's sex by the pronoun I use? Our pronouns don't specify height, weight or hair colour.

Might be ok somewhere where everyone knows the full names of the people they’re talking about.

But I can’t imagine it being very useful when reporting a crime by someone unknown, for example.

BoomBoomsCousin · 09/09/2020 08:00

I agree FifteenToes. I have long wanted a universal pronoun and, if we’re going to keep using them, title. But “the” is a little annoying and all the ones with ‘z’ or’x’ in them look daft and unpronounceable.

FifteenToes · 08/09/2020 22:02

Even if it's "they" it's complete and utter woke bollocks. The pronouns "he" and "she" refer to biological sex and are correct

I think the point is not whether they are correct, but whether they are relevant. If as feminists and gender critical we believe that people should be treated equally and neutrally regardless of their sex, then why should we continue to put up with a linguistic convention that makes it impossible to refer to someone without specifying their sex?

I'm going to against the grain here and say I think this is a great idea. I've always thought it absurd that we can only refer to an individual by specifying their sex, when sex is only relevant to a small minority of situations. If you want people not to always associate doctors and CEOs with maleness, or nurses and stay-at-home-parents with femaleness, then surely one part of that is not constantly reinforcing the sex of the individual through language? Why shouldn't I be able to just say "[that person] hit me", or "[that person] did anything else" without having commit to specifying that person's sex by the pronoun I use? Our pronouns don't specify height, weight or hair colour.

To be sure, making such a huge change to language is a big task. I've never liked any of the proposals so far. "They" just sounds wrong and confusing. Not sure about "the". The obvious problem is potential confusion with the definite article. Told, "The went to the shop", I think I'd want to ask "The WHAT went to the shop?".

But as a principle, bring it on.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/09/2020 15:39

'Could it be friends winding each other up. They know what's going on and lots of them think it's stupid.'

Yes thats what I assumed - maybe someone heard something/urban myth (oooohhhh, the kid at my brothers, friends cousins, neighbours school who was expelled for calling another child the wrong pronoun) and like Telegraph the message got slightly mangled in translation.

I hope its all ok - what stress it must be for the kids (and teachers)

Wondersense · 08/09/2020 15:33

Compelled speech.

I'd ask what the consequences will be for students if they don't comply.

Awful.

Holothane · 08/09/2020 13:44

Im getting sick 0f this crap it might as well be 1984, They way things are going don’t say this say that.

queenofknives · 08/09/2020 13:43

This would worry me too. Could you ask her parents to dig a little bit? They could surely ask questions without causing any trouble. Presumably if this is official school policy, there should be some kind of notice to parents?

BrollyKnickers · 08/09/2020 13:40

@Aesopfable

But ‘thee’ means ‘you’ not he or she, along with thou, thy, thine...

It is also the way some people pronounce 'the'..

IheartJKR · 08/09/2020 13:37

OP- can you give us the area in Suffolk or the name of the town.
If this is true, it really is quite important to know where this is happening.
Please try not to worry Flowers it may be something....it may be a misunderstanding

What year group is your niece?

BrollyKnickers · 08/09/2020 13:27

I'd want confirmation from the school that this is true and why (before I started a thread on Mumsnet about it).

FWRLurker · 08/09/2020 12:34

Ugh this is sad. My daughter (like a lot of kids really) Is a natural rules follower. If she’s taught a rule in school by a teacher she’ll do her best at it - and be distressed greatly if she “breaks” the rule.

I can imagine your child’s distress at Trying to follow this Awkward rule which is going to end up taking up her brain space that should Be devoted to actual learning.