Dads get PND apparently

New baby parental depression? Could apply to non-birthing men or women?

(and also non-birthing female partners / wives too).

I think a new term should be used to differentiate between the women giving birth and the parent not giving birth. It goes without saying that the other parent, male or female btw, could suffer depression at the changes in their lives. It is not the same as the woman giving birth so it needs a different category.

Absolutely agree. It doesn't help anyone when two groups of people with two different conditions are mixed up together.

The easiest way to stop the anger from women who are upset about men being described as having PND would be to call it something else. I'd imagine that would also encourage many men to come forward and admit they are struggling with mental health - I can see that many men wouldn't want to say they are struggling with what most people think of as a female health issue.

It's just silly to call it PND, unimaginative and actually doesn't give enough importance to the real issues men may face.

It's not PND, it's sleep deprivation and an expectation gap.

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble So? Women just nod and smile and men carry on being hard pressed to change any element of toxic masculinity?

I suspect my point bypassed you! It needs a root and branch rethink... maybe starting with the NHS"[/quote]
Maybe it did, I'm not sure yet.

I'm just saying that there is a middle ground between smiling, nodding and going along with it and "how very dare you?".

They dare because that's what they're told by the NHS, by professionals, by charities etc.

Do I think women should just roll over and accept it? No.
Do I think think women should fix this? No.
Do I think women should acknowledge that it is a problem , explain why it's not PND and encourage the men in their lives to seek help, a proper name for the condition and have it recognised as a male issue? Possibly,yes.

ATM, the NHS(well healthcare services world wide really) are taking the easy way out. So are possibly the men as they're not offered an alternative.

I think the resistance is coming from people who wish to reserve the right to judge in as negative light as possible potential men whose actions may be cast in an entirely new light should there be valid genuine medical reasons.

I am heartened to see many are open minded, and hearted enough to care about men’s emotional welfare. In return I very much care about yours too!

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble So? Women just nod and smile and men carry on being hard pressed to change any element of toxic masculinity?

I suspect my point bypassed you! It needs a root and branch rethink... maybe starting with the NHS"

Anyone who claims that post natal illnesses such as severe depression and psychosis are not hormonal is talking nonsense. I speak as someone who suffered two horrifically frightening episodes of psychosis. Both came on so rapidly it was as though a switch had been thrown - I realise now that it was my menstrual cycle kicking in again. I had a long history of PMT/PMDD and the postnatal illness was the same sort of thing but much worse.

Men don’t get this.

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@Imnobody4 precisely!

I don't know anyone who would deny that men are affected by many isses, or that they need to be rid of restrictions of toxic masculinity. But they won't get very far if they won't or can't name their issues as male issues, as and when they are distinct from female issues.

It's the reverse of the Invisible Woman. It needs to be fought and corrected for the same reasons![/quote]
At the moment they can't because that's what the medical profession calls it and what they get diagnosed with.

And if they're met with "oh no you don't! Stop trying to make this about you! Stop trying to take PND away from us! You have nothing to be depressed about! Only women get PND" it's actually very counterintuitive to a discussion about causes, effects, treatment and the problems that stem for it being named PND.

@Imnobody4 precisely!

I don't know anyone who would deny that men are affected by many isses, or that they need to be rid of restrictions of toxic masculinity. But they won't get very far if they won't or can't name their issues as male issues, as and when they are distinct from female issues.

It's the reverse of the Invisible Woman. It needs to be fought and corrected for the same reasons!

blaming him is a bit ‘shooting the messenger’. I have only read/met one man who set up a male PND charity, or helps run one. He is pretty aggressive in how he phrases his fb posts. Women have, apparently, blocked men from getting help by suggesting PND is a female hormonal issue.

If you try to discuss the different triggers, suggest the root cause won't be the same, that the treatment would be different, he gets very angry and blocks you. He's much the same in real life, from the one occasion I met him at a networking meeting. Everyone in the room thought he was a lovely, passionate and caring man until he panhandled everyone and loudly shamed those who did not donate.

He was quite rude when told he couldn't fund raise within the meeting too! What was the ficking point of it if he couldn't take our money? - to parapharse him a little.

So yes, I am shooting that particular mesenger.

Isn't this a bit 'Invisible Man'. Yes men may experience some negative mental health issues, but they are not the same as PND which is condition linked to giving birth. It requires different specific research into cause and treatments. Just as male suicide needs to be studied as a socio/medical phenomenon. A support group for people suffering from PND would fail both men and women.

It's not a new things either, so nothing to do with trans or being woke.

The issue is with NHS, GPs etc. They call it PND, they diagnose it as PND.
That's what the men get told they have , so that's what they talk about if/when they do talk about it.

I would fully support a campaign to change the name.

I don't support pretending that some men's mental health can't possibly be affected by the birth of a baby .

I wouldn't call it PND but DH does currently have mental health problems triggered by my current pregnancy. It just stirred a lot of old hurt up in him regarding our previous losses, stillborn and his own neglectful childhood. That doesn't mean that it's hormones that did this, but his struggles are very real (and he is seeing a therapist for them). He realises that he can't bury his head in the samd anymore, he needs to deal with this so is putting the effort in to get better.

The NHS calls it PND, if a man is diagnosed in the UK he is diagnosed with PND. It isn’t his fault that the NHS calls it PND, blaming him is a bit ‘shooting the messenger

And this, so the "poor lamb" type comments are a bit much.
That's what it's called. Petition for a new name for it if it bothers you that much, hardly something can blame men for here what any after birth depression is called.

its exactly reactions like this that discourage men from coming forward with mental health conditions! no they don't experience hormones but that doesn't mean mens feelings are any less important than womens ffs

Agree, it's not a competition FGS
"Taking depression off us as well" - there's some serious, fucked up thinking on this board sometimes.
The minimising of mental health issues on MN sometimes makes me sick.

I don’t think anyone is advocating centering men. It’s not like that whole prostrate cancer vs breast cancer thing. Obviously a lot has been done to understand, and support mothers who suffer from PND, and that’s brilliant. I just don’t believe it’s at all that bad to cast a weather eye on a hitherto unexamined mental health issue that faces men. Which will benefit mothers, because honestly how is a new mother going to manage of the wheels fall of her partner’s mental health at such a critical time?

"I think a new term should be used to differentiate between the women giving birth and the parent not giving birth."

Neo Parental Depression? Because that's essentially what it is.
I don't doubt that fathers find it hard to adjust. However, I'd like to see some proper care for PND patients before they start centering men yet again.

I don’t know if this is the culprit:
www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/68d922ef-b69f-4ee2-b26d-e60e4b03727b

Further down the article it reads:

“It is not known exactly what causes postnatal depression in women. It’s often mistakenly considered to be a hormonal condition, but feelings of isolation, recent stressful events, a history of mental health problems, and other unresolved issues from the past can all trigger it. And these are all things that can apply to men, too.“

Has the wider research around PND changed in terms of it’s cause? If there has been a shift in the medical thinking and it hasn’t filtered down to the level of general discourse it might explain why the NHS has posted what it has.

The NHS calls it PND, if a man is diagnosed in the UK he is diagnosed with PND. It isn’t his fault that the NHS calls it PND, blaming him is a bit ‘shooting the messenger’.

There's no doubt that toxic masculinity is a reality. The suicide statistics for under-45s are absolutely frightening, this now being the biggest killer of UK men of this age. IMO this should be afforded the gravity it deserves as the national emergency it clearly is, but mental illness still carries a stigma. There's a lot of noise and hot air swirling around 'talking' about it, for all the good that does, but little political will when it comes to funding and properly tackling a very serious issue.

Toxic masculinity doesn't benefit men and it doesn't benefit women. The 'stop whining dear' response is by no means something people of either sex have never heard before. Some medical issues are, however, peculiar to our biology. Our experiences shouldn't (but often do) exist in a hierarchy of whose is the most valid or important. There are various theories as to who loses. But these experiences are different, and this calls for a difference in approach to therapies and treatments.

The misnomer 'Male PND' is doing no more favours to men than it is to women.