Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Job application not asking for sex, but asking if cis or trans

106 replies

JobHuntingPerson · 12/08/2020 19:52

In the middle of applying for a job online, got to the equality and diversity section, all the usual questions about sexuality, religion ethnicity. I know a lot of people hate answering those questions but I think they can be important for companies to monitor their inclusivity.

Anyway, there was no sex question, it did not ask if I'm male or female. Instead there was a gender identity question, asking if I'm Agender, Cisgender, Trans, Queer, Intersex, Non -binary or prefer another term.

So basically, if or when the company does an equality review they will have no idea how many women they employ, no idea how to monitor or prevent any sexist culture growing in the workplace that makes life harder for female employees- or means we never get employed by them in the first place.

Has anyone else who's job seeking at the moment, or working in HR, seen anything like this. Is it becoming the norm?

I found it quite off-putting and don't know how to answer the question.

Job application not asking for sex, but asking if cis or trans
OP posts:
CharlieParley · 13/08/2020 11:49

Companies are obliged by law to monitor the protected characteristics as per the Equality Act. They may choose to monitor additional characteristics, but the EqA ones are the only ones needed.

If this is their monitoring form, I would be concerned that their policies are discriminatory, especially against those of us protected on the basis of sex. And I would certainly think twice before considering them as an employer.

If you are cis gender then you are the sex you were born with.

No, that is not what the term means nor is it what the sexologist who coined the term in 1991 intended to convey.

A person who is "cisgender" by definition embraces the sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes associated with their birth sex, performs them happily and does not feel uncomfortable with or disagrees with or rebels against those stereotypes.

That's why so may of us say we do not know a single person who is "cisgender".

There is no collective term for those of us not suffering from "gender dysphoria" (just in case that's what you were seeking to express.)

Gender, even as understood in transgender ideology, is the collective term for the sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes any given society construct around each sex and imposes on each member of that society. As society changes, so do these stereotypes. Thus, while human sex has only ever consisted of the male and female sex class since the species evolved millions of years ago, gender continually changes.

merrymouse · 13/08/2020 11:33

Not sure if I'll continue the application. I already have a job, so don't desperately need this, just looking for something better.

I wouldn't apply.

If they include 'intersex' on a form like this, what other strange policies do they have? Earth is flat?

Imnobody4 · 13/08/2020 11:29

I'd just leave it blank if poss. I do not have a gender identity so it's not applicable (which I'd use in other if it demands an answer.)
I'd follow up with an expression of concern at the fact they are not abiding by the Equality Act by not monitoring sex. I'd send it in if I'd done the application or probably forget if hadn't completed it.
But HR really need pulling up on this.

merrymouse · 13/08/2020 11:29

Sorry - I'm being stupid - there is a prefer not to say option.

Just tick that.

However, they are still wrong to put 'intersex' as a gender identity.

merrymouse · 13/08/2020 11:28

The 2004 GRA was introduced because of the EU law recognising a right to privacy - specifically so that people don't have to declare their trans status.

Assuming that there isn't a 'prefer not to say' option, this question seems to break the law.

merrymouse · 13/08/2020 11:26

Instead there was a gender identity question, asking if I'm Agender, Cisgender, Trans, Queer, Intersex, Non -binary or prefer another term.

This is very bad - 'intersex' is not a gender identity. It's also none of their business. Is there a 'prefer not to say category'?

SonEtLumiere · 13/08/2020 11:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

eurochick · 13/08/2020 10:54

How does this help them to monitor the protected characteristic of sex? Or gender reassignment for that matter. And including intersex on their menu of woke options is just awful.

JacobReesMogadishu · 13/08/2020 10:53

@Skyliner001

Touched a nerve. Enjoy your outrage. I'm out.
Oh dear, someone doesn't understand the difference between sex and gender.
MonsterSister · 13/08/2020 10:52

Is it Springer? I've just had a weird style guide update from them that is going to make nonsense of quite a lot of their medical publishing shortly. Luckily (?) engineering, quantum mechanics etc are less likely to care whether the wall identifies as a neutrois demiboy.

namechange9357 · 13/08/2020 10:02

...is it multiple choice? It's a terrible question wherever you stand irt gender ideology. Most self-defining queer people would also be cisgender?!

CodenameVillanelle · 13/08/2020 10:01

@namechange9357

I'd be tempted to send it to an intersex advocacy group and/or the CIPD (HR professional body) so they can see what kind of muddle HR teams are getting into.
VERY good idea
namechange9357 · 13/08/2020 10:00

I'd be tempted to send it to an intersex advocacy group and/or the CIPD (HR professional body) so they can see what kind of muddle HR teams are getting into.

calllaaalllaaammma · 13/08/2020 09:58

This is symptomatic of all that is wrong right now, that it is becoming impossible to categorise ‘woman’. The category ‘cis’ includes men and women; they are seeking to erase us as a category and call it progressive.
What about the equality act, in practice does it mean anything? You are right, how can they collect data with regards to female employees if they are not recognised.

CodenameVillanelle · 13/08/2020 09:54

@Skyliner001

I didn't realise I stumbled into a GC echo chamber. 😳😂
I mean, an echo chamber means people refusing to listen to opposing viewpoints and just affirming each other. We would definitely listen to you if you had come back with anything more coherent than 🙄 but it's hard to unpick an emoji
CodenameVillanelle · 13/08/2020 09:53

@Skyliner001

Touched a nerve. Enjoy your outrage. I'm out.
You didn't touch a nerve you just made yourself look silly
Chicchicchicchiclana · 13/08/2020 09:47

Wouldn't touch that company with a bargepole!

What the ACTUAL FUCK???

ThisLittleLady · 13/08/2020 09:37

I’d just write in bold letters I am a woman.

nevertheknowing · 13/08/2020 09:34

I didn't realise I stumbled into a GC echo chamber

I don't think you realise what sex is.

Kaiserin · 13/08/2020 09:29

At a practical level, if a company chooses to erase sex from their equality and diversity data, I would worry about their HR policies around things like pregnancy.
They might very well be, at some level, in breach of the Equality Act or related legislation, where the sex of your employees is very much relevant (it is a protected characteristic, and so are pregnancy and maternity)
It's very possible that right now, they would fail an audit on that topic...
Name and shame?
(I believe their HR department has been very poorly advised, at a legal level)

IsAnybodyListening · 13/08/2020 09:25

I wouldn't even carry on with the application. Imagine working for a company full of woke wet cabbages, with colleagues being triggered if you used the wrong pro-noun. Nah. Fuck that.

TheGreatWave · 13/08/2020 09:23

Big red flag for me too, especially as they seem to not even know what the page at the back is for. I would also be very worried about their handling of any of the other characteristics such as disability or ethnicity.

Though at least now I know what cis means, so that was helpful. Grin

Downthegarden · 13/08/2020 09:19

@Skyliner001

I didn't realise I stumbled into a GC echo chamber. 😳😂
Eh? I think you've stumbled into somewhere people understand biology.
WhoWouldHaveThoughtThat · 13/08/2020 09:15

I can't believe that...

... and if they are going to put 'queer' why not 'poofter' or any of the other derogatory term?

AntsInPenzance · 13/08/2020 09:13

Or just email explaining that the options are useless and possibly illegal (intersex).

Swipe left for the next trending thread