Kamala Harris

Well maybe if the USA dealt with gerrymandering
and voter suppression
it might get better results

but hey
voting Libertarian will make it all OK

What people forget it was successions of Presidents of either stripe that LED to Trump. Trump is just as much as product of the Democratic Party as much as anything else! Successions of virtue signalling Presidents, tone deaf to the needs of the people. I have zero faith they have any other skin in the game other than pandering to special interests in the financial sector. Literally all they have going for them is a veneer of respectability, scratch the surface and they are just as corrupt and self serving as Trump. Meaningful change cannot occur until that fact is faced and factored in.

[quote Dervel]@ListeningQuietly I agree, that’s why I’d personally vote for whichever third party provided an ethical alternative. We have to stop this problem that has creeped into the democratic process of always having to choose the lesser of two evils. At least Trumps flaws are well out in the open and can be opposed in the light of day.[/quote]
I 100% agree with you here Dervel.

I get what you're saying about Biden not being the best candidate but you have to face reality. A significant portion of the US electorate will NEVER vote for a woman, a gay man, an ethnic minority. They just won't. It won't matter if they are veterans, intelligent or qualified they just won't. Biden is the safest choice (even if right of centre) he can win the electoral college. Gabbard would never be able to (at least without Russian help and do you really want that again?)

Harris again is the safest choice out of all the potential VP candidates (I wanted Stacey Abrams).

Given everything Trump has done and everything he will do you have to take the safest option, there is too much at stake. He could literally kill the planet leaving our children fighting for water and food.

Voting a third option is a cop out and the GOP know it hence why they are doing everything they can to get Kanye west on the ballot.

I imagine certain other powers are probably working on Sanders and Gabbard to get them to run too. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and hold your nose and choose the least worst option.

The building is on fire and we are in free fall, now is not the time for a protest vote. Trump and McConnell need to leave otherwise the world is fucked.

I still can't believe that in a country the size of America the only candidates for president they could come up with are Trump and Biden.

[quote Dervel]@ListeningQuietly but you actually kinda are excusing Biden if you want to hand him the keys to the White House. It’s also clear that even the Democratic Party isn’t committed to getting Trump out of the White House by fielding such an unimpressive candidate.

One of the biggest criticisms levelled at Trump is his attitude towards women, if you are actually tolerating that behaviour in Biden as long as he can publicly keep his attitude towards women respectful, but is free to treat them in private how he wishes then I’m afraid that criticism of Trump evaporates also.[/quote]
Yes, exactly Dervel.

Biden has mistreated women (and girls) in public and in private if you believe his accusers (I do personally)... Anita Hill, Abuse accusers, children and women he touches/smells in a way that makes my skin crawl on in film in public and private. I'm sorry (not sorry) that my survivor instinct will not allow me to engage in the cognitive dissonance (it would require of me) to vote for him.

Trump is accused of abusing adult women (which I also believe). I couldn't vote for him for that reason alone forgetting the plethora of policy-related reasons.

If we say it is okay for one man (even if he is the lesser of the evils) to act like that then we are saying it is okay for all men to act like that. It isn't okay, it just isn't.

Biden:

“If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.” (direct quote)

AND

"By the way, what you all know but most people don't know, unlike the African American community with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly different attitudes about different things. You go to Florida, you find a very different attitude about immigration in certain places than you do when you're in Arizona. So it's a very different, a very diverse community," (direct quote)

AND

“When Trump rolled over for the Chinese, he took their word for it. Trump praised the Chinese 15 times in January and February as the coronavirus spread across the world.” (From a Biden ad, not direct quote)

You can't deny Joe's perspective when it comes out of his own mouth. Considering there is a huge uptick in xenophobic and racist attacks on Asian Americans, how moronic due you have to be to think making a xenophobic statement like that in an ad for a POTUS candidate is a good idea?

I mean hello? Is there anybody there? How tone deaf can he be? Biden like many other white Democrats take minority voters for granted and attempt to define those groups according to their 'whiteness' or lack thereof like their % of 'whiteness' presentation is what makes them . Democrats and Republicans alike seem to assume that minorities are Uncle Toms. No opinion just facts based on their vernacular.

I read the incredibly short op-ed about when KH was DA and to say it was full of facts is a material misrepresentation... the article cited low-weight marijuana prosecution, and trafficking (which she failed to attack once becoming AG). The article is hardly 'full of facts'. The story of her AG role is starkly different in comparison.

@ListeningQuietly I agree, that’s why I’d personally vote for whichever third party provided an ethical alternative. We have to stop this problem that has creeped into the democratic process of always having to choose the lesser of two evils. At least Trumps flaws are well out in the open and can be opposed in the light of day.

PS
Women constantly attacking other women is why men are in charge and TWAW got as far as it has

Dervel
You have to start from where you are
not where you want to be

get Trump out
THEN sort the other issues

I am far more worried about Climate change than I am about historic misbehaviour by an old man.

@ListeningQuietly but you actually kinda are excusing Biden if you want to hand him the keys to the White House. It’s also clear that even the Democratic Party isn’t committed to getting Trump out of the White House by fielding such an unimpressive candidate.

One of the biggest criticisms levelled at Trump is his attitude towards women, if you are actually tolerating that behaviour in Biden as long as he can publicly keep his attitude towards women respectful, but is free to treat them in private how he wishes then I’m afraid that criticism of Trump evaporates also.

When the age of the candidates has been an issue (as was Hillary's 'health' in the last campaign) and when Trump has notably derided other candidates about their energy (surely someone as well-informed as you recalls that Jeb Bush was deemed 'low-energy Jeb') energy is an issue. How strange you find it cringe-worthy, but there you go.

If you dismiss an article full of facts, with a 'who cares' that's fine. I have no illusion I will convince you of anything, but, on a public forum, I thought it was worth pointing out some positives.

@ListeningQuietly

Fireunder An interesting list. And there is a fair chance that your two SOS picks will get drawn into the team after the election

Just gotta make sure that we ALL throw the mud at the GOP
not each other

I'm not looking to throw mud at anybody I just want a decent candidate for the first time in my voting career.

And for the record, Clinton bashed the shit out of Gabbard with her 'Russian installed candidate' rhetoric - utterly reprehensible of her. Otherwise Gabbard might still be in the running instead she was ignored and thrown in the 'traitor' box after being a military combat volunteer and forgoing running for another term to continue to serve her military role. Gabbard is an American hero unlike current POTUS, unlike Biden or Harris - and certainly unlike Clinton.

The hypocrisy on the left is staggering from Biden to KH... again just like their right counterparts.

I can throw dirt at Trump and Biden all day long... I have been very fair to KH - I see her as she is - a brilliant and accomplished professional with hypocritical tendencies (easily verified through her public record - my position is based on her record not my feelings) and an adherence to TWAW. I don't care how energetic she is - what a weird way to describe a potential VP considering none of the possible VP candidates are any less 'energetic' would you use that description for a male candidate? I'm intelligent, accomplished, energetic (cringe) but I am nowhere near suited for US VP (even though I definitely have a great understanding of economics and am able to put myself in other's shoes... i.e. Chesterton's fence and all that).

And who cares what her former opposition said... again opinions override facts when it benefits, eh? I base my political stances on facts not feelings or opinions.

Fireunder
An interesting list.
And there is a fair chance that your two SOS picks will get drawn into the team after the election

Just gotta make sure that we ALL throw the mud at the GOP
not each other

P: Tulsi Gabbard

VP: Jo Jorgensen (or Andrew Yang, choices different in theory and intended practice for different but equally important reasons)

SOS: Pete Buttigieg (or Elizabeth Warren , choices different in theory and intended practice for different but equally important reasons)

I have my reasons for each but don't want to bog down KH's thread.

Really shocked by some of these comments. No one with a job with great responsibilities and a public record is going to get everything right and Kamala Harris (or any man who would not be equally raked over the coals) hasn't. But here is, I believe, a very fair assessment of her work by someone who often worked on the opposing side to her.

eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2020/08/10/kamala-harris-progressive-pioneer-san-francisco-da-column/3334668001/

Appalled by the 'slept her way to the top' nonsense - on a feminist forum. As one article pointed out Willie Brown (who no one is talking about now except for his connection to Harris) did a lot more to promote the career of, say, Gavin Newsom, the current governor of California, than he ever did for Kamala.

She is bright and energetic and will work hard. But yeah, performative outrage is so much more fun.

Dervel
I am not excusing what Biden did.
I am pointing out that Biden is the lesser evil
and will only serve one term.

Getting Trump out has to be the absolute priority.
And if that means not throwing mud at Biden and Harris
so be it.

Have folks learned nothing from the demonisation of Hillary Clinton ?

@ListeningQuietly I hear you loud and clear! Here is an independent article with the same information: www.independent.co.uk/us-election-2020/kamala-harris-police-joe-biden-sexual-assault-law-and-order-2020-election-a9666131.html

She will learn and change
same as all other drinkers of the Koolaid

at the moment she is the best hope to stop a second Trump term
which is rather more important

as the Arctic is at a tipping point and a change of US government is essential for action on climate change
which frankly dwarfs worries anything else

I was reading an article a couple of days ago, where KH was fully supportive of transwomen in women's sports. She has been fully accepting the whole trans thing.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/08/12/kamala-harris-trans-rights-trangender-pose-angelica-ross-lgbt/

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/15/drastically-scaled-back-pride-month-trans-issues-are-having-moment/

I do not trust stories in papers owned by Murdoch

he has his own agenda
and it does not include strong democracies

I’m a little surprised she would agree given she believed Biden’s accusers:

nypost.com/2020/08/12/kamala-harris-believed-joe-bidens-accusers-until-she-didnt/

I think that pretty much reveals her as a hypocrite, whose own career goals and ambition are more important. I am sick to death of the Democratic Party who are fine to weaponise sexual assault allegations against their political opponents, but their own side are free and clear to treat women precisely as they wish. An inconsistent principle is no principle at all.

I don’t see how any politician of any integrity can say they believe victims one day, assert the man IS an abuser and then roll all that back just to take a top job. Are there really no Male democrats that they could find to put up against Trump who haven’t assaulted women?

American politics is an absolute shitshow of the highest order.