Kamala Harris

Nevertheless, in domestic terms, I don't think that there will be a significant effect on the lives of most Americans regardless of who gets elected.

Obviously structure of US government means that the States have a lot of legislative power, and, compared to a parliamentary system, its often difficult to pass legislation at a federal level.

However, I don't think the US can survive 4 more years of a president who endorses Q-anon, won't criticise Putin and has no interest in the job of government. It's true that Trump often doesn't follow through on his threats, but the lack of a competent US head of state affects everyone in the world.

In reality, with most of these issues there would be very little difference. Take drugs, for instance; Trump has been in office during the most widespread decriminalisation of drugs in American history, with California, Massachusetts, and Illinois decriminalising cannabis in the last four years. The presidency could effectively veto this by the strict enforcement of federal drugs law, but has chosen not to. It is unlikely that the election of Clinton in 2016 would have led to significantly different results.

And this is not to say that the election of Biden/Harris this year would be much different from the re-election of Trump/Pence. I expect with Biden we would see a more significant shift to internationalism, with a reversion to the normalisation of relations with Iran, and greater participation with international bodies, such as the WHO. Nevertheless, in domestic terms, I don't think that there will be a significant effect on the lives of most Americans regardless of who gets elected.

Under its zero-tolerance policy last year, the Trump administration systematically separated all migrant families apprehended at the border.
That's because up to 30% of the children are unrelated to the adults that they are with. Children in Central American countries are being kidnapped in order to be Trafficked. As said in the video below the gangs that run the Trafficking rings have realised that "drugs can be sold once a human being can be sold over and over".
www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/ms-13-members-and-associates-arrested-sex-trafficking-minor
www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-patrol-dna-20180508-htmlstory.html
cis.org/Arthur/Fake-Family-Units-Border

m.youtube.com/watch?v=WgB-DhoORis

The absolutely key point is that Biden / Harris
are far more likely to appoint a competent team around them

• climate change
• covid
• trade
• drugs
• rights
• arms trade

Personally I doubt that either Biden or Harris have given a moments thought about trans rights in women's shelters
but the lobbyists around them have shouted loud
same with most other issues

therefore you vote for the team that will do the best for the country as a whole
see the forest for the trees

It becomes incredibly hard for the average voter now to distinguish the who/what/how/why of politics in the modern world.

Indeed, particularly when people pretend that the two policies are comparable.

Trump is not the first US politician to put a child in a cage. He did distinguish himself by introducing a policy of putting children in cages for no apparent reason.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/live-updates/election-2020/third-democratic-debate-analysis-and-fact-checking/fact-checker-biden-on-immigration-policy/?arc404=true

"Contrary to Biden’s claim, the Obama administration did use caged enclosures beginning in 2014 to hold families apprehended along the southern border by U.S. authorities.

There is photographic evidence showing the cages in 2014. A former Homeland Security secretary under Obama, Jeh Johnson, has said “we expanded family detention … I freely admit it was controversial.”

The ACLU sued the Obama administration over this practice. “Locking up families and depriving them of their liberty in order to scare others from seeking refuge in the U.S. is inhumane and illegal,” Judy Rabinovitz, the deputy director of the ACLU’s Immigrants’ Rights Project, said at the time.

The Trump administration also has been criticized for holding migrants in border facilities with cages. Biden was drawing a contrast between both administrations, but he erred when he said cages weren’t used under Obama.

However, Biden is on solid ground when he distinguishes Trump’s family separation policy from Obama’s. Under its zero-tolerance policy last year, the Trump administration systematically separated all migrant families apprehended at the border.

The zero-tolerance approach is worlds apart from the Obama- and George W. Bush-era policy of separating children from adults at the border only in limited circumstances, such as when officials suspected human trafficking or another kind of danger to the child or when false claims of parentage were made."

apnews.com/2663c84832a13cdd7a8233becfc7a5f3

One really significant problem is that our media sources have now become incredibly corrupted, so many events and policies are represented in a partisan manner. It becomes incredibly hard for the average voter now to distinguish the who/what/how/why of politics in the modern world.

Ben Carson got federal women's only shelters transwoman free. He didn't do it in a cruel waythey don't throw transwomen out on the streets they place them in different shelters. Biden's policy is to force all women's only crisis shelters to accept transwomen and penalize them monetarily. Yank all funding and fine them. Throw out women who object. So that's one difference where the Trump Admin is better for vulnerable women.

I think both Biden and Trump are women-hating senile sexual assaulters. I wish Harris were the candidate. I get the sense she's just lying her ass off because TRAs are making her. I think Biden is a true believer with a close AGP friend guiding his hand.

Whatever happens, no matter who you vote for whether its third party or not voting at all, ultimately it's going to be either Biden/Harris or Trump/Pence.
Sitting out or voting for a third party won't change that.
It's not about choosing the best candidate, it's about who is the least worst and who will do the least damage.
I'm not American so I dont get a vote in this but when I look at Trump, all I see is children in cages and even the trans stuff isn't worse than that.
And others have said, he'll also likely have the chance to appoint more supreme court justices. That'll do more long term damage than almost anything else, because you'll end up with a hard right supreme court for decades. I really don't think it's much of a contest, despite the Democrats flaws and stances on trans issues.

It is likely that any legislation created by Trump that pretends to protect women's rights won't last because

1. He doesn't care about protecting anyone's rights, even the people he claims to support

2. Neither he nor his government are competent

Many, many people will be voting Biden/Harris despite having big disagreements on policy.

It’s far more delusional to believe that Trump and his Republican Party supporters care about protecting women’s rights.

This is a man who is openly admitting that he wants to restrict funds to the postal service to influence the election in his favour and who is suggesting that he deserves to run for a 3rd term for completely made up reasons.

And yes, merrymouse, not voting is for the birds - or for people who don't care what happens or who gets hurt. Being endlessly cynical is the easiest thing in the world - trying to build something up takes work.

Oops meant to include this on Kamala's stance on issues: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53770654

Just a reminder that the topic is Kamala Harris. On a feminist board, I am happy to celebrate that an accomplished woman (of colour, as well) who supports many issues that I do being chosen as the Democratic vice presidential nominee. Many woman I admire are happy and actively supporting her, such as Barbara Lee, who worked for Shirley Chisholm and who took a remarkably brave stance against the Iraq war. www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/kamala-harris-barbara-lee-black-women-leadership-podcast-bonus-livestream/

However colour me sad that in 2020, and on a feminist board no less someone can earnestly and unironically advocate for a man stood accused of sexually abusing women

There is no alternative choice.

Not voting does not have neutral consequences.

Literally all they have going for them is a veneer of respectability, scratch the surface and they are just as corrupt and self serving as Trump.

That is not true.

Most politicians are flawed, but only Trump is suggesting that its worth getting advice on covid from a doctor who thinks that endometriosis is caused by women having sex with demons.

Its difficult to know where to start or end with Trump, but he really is on another level when it comes to corruption and incomptetence.

A fun response from Randy Rainbow (if you don't know Randy's work you should.)

So far good poll numbers for her as the pick: edition.cnn.com/2020/08/16/politics/kamala-harris-polls-voters-like-pick/index.html

And an objective account of her stance on issues. Good on environment, women's issues and gun control - all important to me.

Fire
Baby steps
Biden is a baby step

I consider all US states suspect - regardless of their records and regard the federal system in a less fair light. The federal government consistently screws things up and is incredibly wasteful. The IRS is a disaster, VA is a life-crushing disaster for many veterans, DHS: CBP/ICE/FEMA/TSA/Secret Service is rife with ineptitude. Our federal government is a parade of inflated egos and moronic behavior bolstering and worshiping big business to the detriment of our citizens/refugees/immigrants. But I am active at the local and state level... I do what I can to help the US be a place I can be proud of (hopefully) in the future.

The EU is made up of 28 countries (with their own governments, education systems/policies, et al). Germany is the largest EU member currently with a population of 83,019,213 (2019). The largest country to adhere to EU guidelines (by population) is Germany, a country that is 25% of the US in population. France is the largest EU member by land mass at 551,695km2 which is 5.6% of the US in land mass. The US has a population of 328,239,523 (2019) and land mass of 9,833,517km2. Do you really think that the US (being of toddler age/development socially in comparison to most countries) with all of its downfalls can adopt and properly scale up systems/processes using a country with 75% lesser population (Germany) and a country with 94.4% lesser land mass (France) as guides for EU target compliance with those population and land mass governance perspectives in play? It just isn't possible right now, this country is not capable of adopting such policies maturely and properly.

Talk about starting from where we are... I mean I can't think of a less likely scenario than what you envision/desire. I get your point, I just don't think it is a pragmatic reality in my lifetime.

Dervel
I think you are rather missing the point.
The Trans agenda being promoted by the far right is putting women's rights at greater risk than they have been in the last 30 years

Biden is a dinosaur
but one who is likely to appoint a decent team
Harris is young enough to change

I admit that I find the pearl clutching of some me too historic attackers
to be far more damaging than a simple
he's an old git stopgap
and a constructive SUPPORTIVE engagement with the generation who will follow them

What went on in the 70's was wrong
OK
now look forwards
not back

Fireunder
Until the entire USA has a politically independent
boundary commission
and
voter registration system
as per the rules of the EU to count as a free and fair election
I will consider every USA state suspect
even the one I vote in

"The Supreme Court of the United States has affirmed in Miller v. Johnson (1995) that racial gerrymandering is a violation of constitutional rights and upheld decisions against redistricting purposely devised based on race."

and

SCOTUS ruled in 2019 that federal judges do not have the authority to redraw election districts that are overly skewed in favor of one political party due to map manipulation known as “gerrymandering.”

We are dealing with it, where have you been? Legislature is in place and it is in the hands of the enforcers to ensure that the law isn't broken and when it is that it is handled in accordance with the law. One of our problems with this is that as a nation we always are presented with a choice of 'evils' past the primaries meaning that (so far) all candidates are enriched by these practices (Dems and Reps). Look at MD, NM, VA... Reps were gerrymandered out just like Reps gerrymander out Dems. They are sides to the same dirty coin.

I was very active in my state (Florida) back when we were fighting gerrymandering, we as residents of FL overwhelmingly voted to abolish gerrymandering here in 2010. Our state constitution has an amendment that now prohibits gerrymandering but what the state SC found was that redistricting was tampered with to favor Republicans and have taken an active role in correcting these errors since the House and Senate couldn't come to a consensus.

There is no instant gratification in actual sustainable change - it can take decades.

"After record voter turnout in 2008, more than 30 states introduced voter suppression legislation in 2011: 16 states passed such measures." ACLU

Early voting helps reduce voter suppression and some states (including mine) has passed laws I am 100% against reducing early voting windows but early voting is still available.

Registering to vote is ridiculously easy and required to vote - online (39 states including DC), in person (state or local election office, DMV, armed forces recruitment centers, state and county assistance centers e.g. SNAP and WIC), via mail (all states), via mail and online for out-of-country. If you can get services assistance you can get registered to vote (it isn't a leap unless you are avoiding the step).

"Fifteen percent of Americans who earn less than $35,000 a year do not have a government-issued photo ID." ACLU

I find the above odd as getting a government issued ID is ridiculously easy and is required for most jobs, so if you are employed by a company you have to produce several forms of acceptable ID from SS cards to passports to General IDs and DLs. You have to have a SS number to or TIN to file and pay taxes - even when self-employed. So it blows my mind that there are people walking around with no gov. ID if they are generating income ($12,760 is poverty level for individuals and most of those in the $12k - $35k range are employed by companies in some capacity at least part-time). It just doesn't math out or seem logical for me that there are that many earners that don't have gov ID especially since more than half of the low wage earners are employed at minimum wage.

Possible not impossible*

@ListeningQuietly vote libertarian, communist or for the sugar plum fairy if you’re so inclined. I mean heck vote for Biden/Harris if that’s really your honest view. It’s your vote and crucial for you to use it in accordance with your own conscience. However colour me sad that in 2020, and on a feminist board no less someone can earnestly and unironically advocate for a man stood accused of sexually abusing women. Strange times indeed.

I realise we’ve gotten pretty heated in this debate, and I don’t want you coming away thinking I don’t respect you, because I actually do, very much. I think political engagement is very important in the world and I admire you for taking the time to express your view.

I also appreciate that where you are coming from very likely stems for a love of all the things that Trump threatens, which again I respect you greatly for. I am just sorry I cannot cross the moral/ethical rubicon to support Biden.

Also just to clarify which I know I have not articulated at all is that my vitriol is primarily aimed at Biden more than Harris. She may be weighing up that she could do a lot more good as VP, than refusing the position on point of principle, although I do find the act of throwing her lot in with him a massive red flag, and indicator of carrying on business as usual. However it is impossible my misgiving could be proved wrong.

Anyway once again thank you for the discussion, I wish you well.

You're right Obama did win the presidency but who won the senate and Congress? What happened immediately after the result was called?Obama was stalled for 8 years as well as being subjected to some of the worst abuse any president has been subjected too.

When Obama won there was this great belief that the US had moved away from its racism but it was bullshit. The events of the last 10 years have shown that at least 40% of the American electorate do not respect or tolerate anything other than a straight white old dude.

I am all for changing the system but you have to work with what you got and unfortunately you got the electoral college. You need the Whitehouse, Congress and the senate.

I get what you're saying about Biden not being the best candidate but you have to face reality. A significant portion of the US electorate will NEVER vote for a woman, a gay man, an ethnic minority.

You are correct, however...

I didn't realize that Obama is 'white'? He certainly wasn't 'white enough' to avoid birther conspiracies or to avoid Michelle's horrible disgusting heart-wrenching vomit-inducing abuse that she (and he but not as bad) have endured every since the beginning of the original campaign for POTUS (and they both handle it with such class and grace - I don't know if I could rise to that level, one can only hope).

"When they go low, we go high."

The electorate track record is poor yes but Obama maxed out his terms as POTUS and I believe that says a lot. And if more citizens would vote we would see a better outcome but (I believe) most are so disenfranchised with the entirety of government that they have given up. If there were better candidates (that didn't get attacked from their own party i.e. Gabbard) we may see a better voter turnout.

I've over the status quo, I'm over the overt and covert sexism, xenophobia, and racism. I'm over all of this crap. And my vote doesn't actually impact shit - but it is my voice and I am going to use it the way I find to be best based on facts (not feelings or hopes) and without subjecting myself to self-forced cognitive dissonance.