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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kamala Harris

292 replies

Xanthangum · 11/08/2020 21:48

... has been selected as Joe Biden's running mate.

Important for all sorts of reasons I feel

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1293281838337871875?s=20

OP posts:
startrek90 · 21/08/2020 18:00

@KonTikki

No I am not a believer in conspiracy theories but your president is. Hence when a reporter actually ASKED him about Qanon (a designated terrorist organisation, designated by the trump appointed FBI chief) 2 days ago in a press briefing he did not distance or refute it.

This man trades in conspiracy theories and white supremacy.

Also nice use of the word hysterical, kind of revealing.

It's is a slow slide into autocracy. The trump administration has spent the last 4 years undermining democratic institutions. He is already undermining the legitimacy of the 2020 election. He stated at a recent campaign speech that if he loses that means the election was rigged.

Why are you so invested in defending this man?

A constitution is a piece of paper that only has value as long as all the parties choose to value it.

Trump does not value the constitution. He does not respect norms and neither do his supporters. Supporters who have already sent pipe bombs to Democrats, supporters who have shot up pizza shops and almost blew up a ferry.

I'm sorry but November will be a bloodbath if Biden wins. Trump and the GOP will contest this election. Unfortunately I have been right about trump since 2016 and I maintain that he or his supporters will harm Biden. I worry for kamala Harris too, as a black woman in America she is in for one hell of a vicious campaign

ListeningQuietly · 21/08/2020 17:18

Nearly
Which is why voters need to make a stand in 2020 to make sure that the rot does not set in further over the next 4 years.

NearlyGranny · 21/08/2020 17:16

merrymouse is right. Democracy has been filched piecemeal before from under the noses of people who thought a constitution or other document would somehow guarantee its continuance.

By the time you realise, it's already too late. Eternal vigilance etc.

merrymouse · 21/08/2020 17:01

If you have a spare afternoon read the US constitution. It's all in there.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Constitution

People thought this was a useful document once.

merrymouse · 21/08/2020 16:55

That's the same model that has alienated increasing sections of the population, increased the precariat, forgotten the working classes, and increased the wealth gap. And, notably, increasingly driven people to vote for extremists, to accept that drastic action is necessary, and drive anti-government sentiment generally.

So what will be the outcome of that?

It's the difference between living in a flawed democracy where people are still free to post rubbish on a site like Mumsnet, and living in a dictatorship where you are always worried about the knock at the door.

Trump is the first step to that kind of dictatorship, because he is not guided by any moral principles, and actively wants to destroy institutions that protect democracy like an independent judiciary and a free press. (I am not talking about the Supreme Court here - I might not like his appointments, but they are qualified and would have been appointed by another republican president - I am more talking about his pardon for Roger Stone and his undermining of the judiciary).

The only thing protecting the US (and the rest of the world) from Trump's worse impulses is his incompetence and laziness, but he can pave the way for a want to be autocrat with drive and intelligence.

No government will ever be the magic bullet that magically protects its population from corrupt dictators forever. All we can do is hope that the majority of people recognise when it is necessary to course correct.

FireUnderTheHand · 21/08/2020 16:49

@KonTikki

Star trek Are you big on conspiracy theories ??

The US constitution was written specifically to ensure the timely and orderly handover of Presidential power from the out going to the incoming President.

Trump can stamp his feet, cry foul, throw his teddy in the corner ..... but on losing the election he becomes an ex-president and loses all presidential authority.

If you have a spare afternoon read the US constitution. It's all in there.

^This
KonTikki · 21/08/2020 14:21

Star trek
Are you big on conspiracy theories ??

The US constitution was written specifically to ensure the timely and orderly handover of Presidential power from the out going to the incoming President.

Trump can stamp his feet, cry foul, throw his teddy in the corner ..... but on losing the election he becomes an ex-president and loses all presidential authority.

If you have a spare afternoon read the US constitution. It's all in there.

ListeningQuietly · 21/08/2020 14:21

If the incoming administration pledged to deal with

  • gerrymandering
  • voter registration suppression
  • transparency and modern regulation of election funding and advertising
  • requested that all states allow split vote electoral college
then politicians who are willing to work together are more likely to get elected which would reduce the temperature

There is absolutely no way Trump would do that
even with Bannon in custody

there is a chance that Biden's team might move towards it

Goosefoot · 21/08/2020 14:15

Even granted that Trump might be a problem, it's not like voting for Biden is really going to improve things. You will have one or two terms of non-incompetant governance, but it is also going to be the same as what the government has been doing, under Republicans and Democrats, since the early 80s.

That's the same model that has alienated increasing sections of the population, increased the precariat, forgotten the working classes, and increased the wealth gap. And, notably, increasingly driven people to vote for extremists, to accept that drastic action is necessary, and drive anti-government sentiment generally.

So what will be the outcome of that?

ListeningQuietly · 21/08/2020 13:59

Anybody who thinks that the GOP will stand by Trump if Biden wins
needs to give their heads a wobble.

Ditto anybody who thinks that US forces and civil servants who pledge allegiance to the flag rather than the president will stand by a former president

If they kill Biden between November and January then Harris gets sworn in
I can live with that Grin

merrymouse · 21/08/2020 13:03

He has already said that he is not leaving in 2024. He has already shown you what he is prepared to do to hold power.

He isn't the healthiest person. He might not live till 2024.

However, he and his supporters in the Republican Party can pass legislation to further restrict voting rights.

wejustdisagree · 21/08/2020 12:12

I think you're being hyperbolic. There is absolutely no way, if he isn't re-elected, that he will be allowed to stay in the white house.

startrek90 · 21/08/2020 11:57

Do you really think he or his sycophants will follow the constitution? They haven't so far and they have been laying the groundwork for this for years.

Also there is a huge amount of time between November 2020 and January 2021. You really think he or his supporters will not turn to violence and murder? You think he won't encourage it? This is a man who stood up not 2 days ago and agreed with the Q anon conspiracy that said he was chosen to save the world from Satan worshipping cannabalistic pedophiles. This is man who endorses terrorist organisations and openly declared himself as the chosen one.

You think a small matter of the constitution is going to change anything? The same constitution that protects the postal service, bans foreign interference in elections and stops presidents from soliciting gifts from foreign governments?

You seriously think that the republicans are going to follow the constitution at all and hold him to account? The same republicans that announced 2 days ago that Donald Trump DID collude with Russia to steal the 2016 election after acquitting him in January without hearing any witnesses? The same republicans who said he learnt his lesson and then stood silently whilst Trump openly asked China for help is this election right after the trial?

Really? Make no mistake if Biden wins in November he or his son will be killed.

wejustdisagree · 21/08/2020 10:44

He has already said that he is not leaving in 2024. He has already shown you what he is prepared to do to hold power.

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/what-if-he-wont-go/606259/

Because the president immediately and automatically loses his constitutional authority upon expiration of his term or after removal through impeachment, he would lack the power to direct the U.S. Secret Service or other federal agents to protect him. He would likewise lose his power, as the commander in chief of the armed forces, to order a military response to defend him. In fact, the newly minted president would possess those presidential powers. If necessary, the successor could direct federal agents to forcibly remove Trump from the White House. Now a private citizen, Trump would no longer be immune from criminal prosecution, and could be arrested and charged with trespassing in the White House.

highame · 21/08/2020 10:17

Merry the tweets, yes of course, the bloody tweets. My issue is the hardening divisions and I was, in some way, trying to balance things out.

The hard left do want anarchy because the break down and re-building of society in a woke image is the driving force. So I feel very edgy when looking from the outside at the US because there's nothing to say it wont happen here. Bit of rubbish - I'll get my coat Grin

Iminthewrongstory · 21/08/2020 10:13

So the point of my story above is vote for someone who doesn't want to hit icebergs :-)

BTW, I'd missed Gloria Steinem's reaction to the selection of Kamala:thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/511827-gloria-steinem-selection-of-kamala-harris-recognizes-that-black

Iminthewrongstory · 21/08/2020 10:00

I know some folks who voted 3rd party last time around with the expectation that Hillary would get in anyway, but they could snipe on the sidelines, saying, 'Well, we didn't vote for her.' If they are voting third party this time around, they are keeping quiet about it. But, of course, the whole idea of the vote is that it's your choice - and the consequences of your vote remain with you. (I could go on about why a vote for, say, libertarians who don't believe in government intervention during a pandemic might not be a great choice, but everyone has their own priorities.)

Obama once used the analogy of being president to being the captain of a huge ocean liner. You can't do sudden turns, it's just a a gradual shift one way or another. And I believed him. Until I realised that the analogy doesn't work if the captain doesn't care about hitting icebergs and sinking the ship and then hording all the lifeboats for himself.

startrek90 · 21/08/2020 08:38

My only question to those who want to protest vote is: can you live with a trump administration for the foreseeable future? He has already said that he is not leaving in 2024. He has already shown you what he is prepared to do to hold power. Imagine him completely untethered. This could very well be the last election you or your children ever vote in. Can you live with that? If the answer is no then you need to vote him out. It's that simple.

Whatever happens in November will be a bloodbath. I genuinely fear for Joe Biden and his families lives right now. There have already been some worrying statements from fox news suggesting that 'something' is going to happen to him or his son.

Joe Biden is not the ideal candidate I get that but right now the US is on fire and some a quibbling over the garden hose.

merrymouse · 21/08/2020 08:34

Sorry I meant to post

"You just have to read his tweets".

We are very used to saying "it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other" and "whoever wins the election, the government always gets in", and every political party claims that a win for the other side will cause the end of civilisation, but at some point you have to drop the cynicism and recognise a real danger.

merrymouse · 21/08/2020 08:31

No one is wholly good or wholly bad but if we chose the media version then we stop thinking

You don't need any media to make a judgement about Trump. All just have to read his tweets.

There is so, so much to judge, but the thing I always go back to is the time he retweeted and therefore endorsed a known far right extremist account in the UK.

highame · 21/08/2020 08:23

I would have said, only a month ago that it was Biden's but in reality it's seats in the Senate. If the Democrats can't win a majority then they can do very little.

We have major divisions here and in the US and we do not improve by stating Trump is an idiot etc etc. Idiots have outnumbered good leaders by a mile but we seem to have learned that if we (media, twitter etc) go all out to tarnish and diminish then 'ooh look we've made him look stupid' divides even further and we all suffer.

No one is wholly good or wholly bad but if we chose the media version then we stop thinking.

It's all a mess and I think @FireUnderTheHand had some fair points to make. We undermine ourselves if we jump to conclusions instead of reasoning things out whilst discussing.

The mess just gets messier

merrymouse · 21/08/2020 08:15

What I learned is that even on MN - a site from across the pond - I am still forced into that 'with us or against us' corner and since I can't join either side I'm just going to sit down.

You will be stuck with 'with us or against us' for at least 4 more years if Trump has another term, because that one of his few clear beliefs.

merrymouse · 21/08/2020 08:00

I have posted so much and said so much but you still want to put me in Trump's camp?

There are only two choices for president.

ListeningQuietly · 20/08/2020 21:35

Fireunder
Your vote is your choice.
The electoral college is as it is.
My vote will have no effect on the electoral college
but I will still vote so that I show up in the popular vote
for the person who gives the country the best chance to move forward

Once the USA grasps the importance of

  • electoral inclusion
  • racial inclusion
  • healthcare inclusion
  • childcare inclusion
then things will improve regardless of who we vote for
FireUnderTheHand · 20/08/2020 21:29

As Floisme said upthread, attempting to shut down the discussion with soundbites is unhelpful to me but I am not asking you to modify your behavior in any way.

I'm not on here advocating, I'm here to discuss and lament what is in front of us as Americans.

It is so horrifying and disheartening - this is not the country I thought I lived in and I already knew the history. I know what this country has done from women's oppression to child exploitation to slavery to the Trail of Tears and turning away of those fleeing the Holocaust to the Turkegee experiments to all of the other atrocities this nation has committed in the name of liberty and freedom.

In the name of liberty and freedom for men I was raised to hate myself and I still had hope. I'm hopeless but unwavering in action towards actual liberty and freedom - I want to taste that air before I die (you know what I mean).

Reality remains and I just want to talk about well the whole mess. I get where you are coming from with pushing Biden but I am not a swing voter and my convictions are unwavering in regards to him. Not delusional or insane - just wanted to speak to others that can think outside of this omnipresent binary and not feel so alone. What I learned is that even on MN - a site from across the pond - I am still forced into that 'with us or against us' corner and since I can't join either side I'm just going to sit down.

Have a good afternoon - all of you!

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