Kamala Harris

that previously anti gun advocates are buying guns because they are so scared

Yes. And former Dem voters are openly saying on Twitter that this violent disorder and its apologists are like a campaign advert for Trump....

Belle

It's quite incredible. How do these violent clowns imagine this plays to most voters?

And yes, I recognise that FWR is largely populated by like-minded thinkers, so the hope that I might be a woke outsider, to give you someone to preach to must be appealing.

Unfortunately, if you check my posting history, I'm afraid it'll disappoint you to discover I've been GC on here for years.

So desperate are people to commandeer minority status that Elizabeth Warren, briefly the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination, took a DNA test to show that she was between 1/1,024 and 1/64 Native American Indian, explaining to the public in 2018 that one of her great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great (great?) grandparents was indigenous. In a society based on shared interests, this toenail of DNA would have been irrelevant. In today’s America, based on every kind of difference, it was endlessly portentous

Quite. Tucker Carlson is making these points night after night whilst his viewing figures continue to reach new heights. Millions of people are watching Carlson eviscerate the identity politics mania which has colonised the Dems. Meanwhile, scenes of looting, burning buildings and violent disorder in Democrat run cities may not make CNN, but millions are watching them on social media.....

BovaryX - happy to read suggestions if you post links, don't have time to search google for relevant works by those you named.

No idea why you think I might have a 'total meltdown' at the Spiked article you linked to. I found I moderately interesting, and its key hypothesis fairly convincing. Were you under the impression I was 'woke'? If so, think you have got the wrong end of the stick!

If anything, I recognise in Floisme's refusal to accept compromise over the election similar tendencies to those described in the article. No, Biden and Harris aren't perfect, but this need for people to be perfect or we must cast them out is exactly what's being described in this article.

I am more of a pragmatist. My point was that US voters currently have two choices. No more. And of the two, Biden and Harris present the better choice for democracy long term (arguably the only choice), as well as the better (not the perfect) choice for female voters in this election.

Yes, I despair of many aspects of Biden/Harris's programme, as far as women's rights are concerned. But they are better than the alternative.

And in a two-horse race, that is the only thing that matters.

BovaryX don't you know they are just "peaceful protests", it's simply unfortunate that 30 people have died, that previously anti gun advocates are buying guns because they are so scared.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=BbKvhnLoV0Q

Do you imagine the Antifa clowns in Portland are good PR for Team Biden?
Don't you mean the wall of Moms in their cycle helmets
and the wall of Dads with their leaf blowers
as that is what the reputable new sources across the country picked up on
and that is why Trump decided not to send the Feds into the other Democrat run cities

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/identity-politics-has-shattered-america-h395p3gzs

Might add to the debate, but maybe not. Division is part of the package nowadays and is absolutely necessary for hard left politics.

electoral choices

xxyzz

Voters in the US will make their electoral sources irrespective of mumsnet. If those choices cause shock and awe in the usual suspects, that will be because of the echo chamber mindset which you, xxyzz are doing a stellar job of representing on this thread. Do you imagine the Antifa clowns in Portland are good PR for Team Biden? You might not have seen their antics, but millions of US voters who don't rely on NBC, CNN et al have done.

Andy Ngo = LOL

www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/andy-ngo-right-wing-troll-antifa-877914/

Floisme - how convenient.

So no, you don't have any solutions. And aren't interested in finding any. You just want US voters not to vote for the only alternative to Tump because...?

As you're not going to fill in that gap, I'll draw my own (obvious) conclusions.

I am tempted to suggest some alternative sources for xxyzz starting with Andy Ngo, James Lindsay, Thomas Sowell, Coleman Hughes, might be useful. Tucker Carlson monologue might trigger a total meltdown...
www.spiked-online.com/2020/08/14/wokeness-old-religion-in-new-bottle/

You and many others are talking as if Trump is some weird aberration, that he popped out of thin air, and once he's gone it will all go back to normal.•

No, I don’t think that is what is being suggested at all.

Trump is where he is because the Republican Party are happy to have the hand of an amoral con man signing legislation as long as he is their amoral conman. He and his enablers won’t suddenly vanish.

The Democrats are not magic.

However, wishing for a third non existent alternative is pointless when the election is in 2 months.

The US (and by extension the rest of the world) would be severely damaged by 4 more years of Trump, who would feel that his actions since 2016 (Siding with dictators, pardon as reward for loyalty, bare faced lies, racist comments) had been endorsed.

Biden is an imperfect sticking plaster, but at the moment that is all there is.

If you think Biden is the problem,

And actually, I'm not sure how you got this from what I said.

The problem is there has been no alternative political option since the early 80s.

You and many others are talking as if Trump is some weird aberration, that he popped out of thin air, and once he's gone it will all go back to normal. He's not an aberration, he's the result of the way both parties have been managing the country for a generation.

Going back to doing the same thing is not going to produce a new better outcome.

Who do you work for?
Hey xxyzz just to remind you what you said to me.
Along with a suggestion I was astroturfing.

And then, instead of apologising, you get snarky because I took the piss?

And now you want to have a conversation?

Not going to happen my friend.

Goodnight.

What would cause either party to seriously rethink their commitment to Wall Street at all costs, is the question. I'm not sure I think anything will, which isn't very heartening.

xy I agree with your upshot 100%. Which is why it is so important we understand WHY trump got elected in the first place.

We can’t do politics as usual. We can’t assume anything in terms of who will vote for the Dems.

We have to push the Biden/Harris ticket to be compassionate and understanding of the plight of The highly skeptical working class In the USA. Btw not just white working class - a lot of Hispanics voted for Trump too.

Voting for Biden/Harris is the ONLY OPTION for any American who cares about democracy, let alone women's rights.

Any further discussion about niceties is a luxury we can't afford at this moment.

FWRLurker

"This kind of comment is why Trump got elected."

Not when made on MN it wasn't.

I very much doubt many swing voters in the US are reading my comments on an obscure bit of a UK parenting website and basing their voting decisions on them!

I don't feel the need to mince my words. Trump doesn't so much flirt with racism as full-on snog it. There are no Americans left who don't know that he is a full-blown racist and white supremacist. If they choose to vote for him anyway, then they are as bad and I have no intention of mincing my words.

*That might have been a reasonable argument in 2016.

It isn't so reasonable in 2020*

Elites ARE still sneering at white lower income / working class rust belters though. More so than ever.

Some of these people might not vote at all (if they have even heard about The more egregious things Trump has been up to) but I am not sure they are going to vote for Biden either.

My understanding is that backlash Against elite intellectual/professional class from the working classes is basically what happened with Brexit also?

The role race will play this time round is an interesting one, and I don't think it's just "racists will vote for Trump." We'll see the continuation of algorithms allowing for incredibly targeted advertising, plus the fact that many people now get their slant on the news from what their google feed suggests for them.

I was talking to a friend the other day about this - I could see some re-vamped Cambridge Analytica type simultaneously running stuff targeted at racist voters pushing "Harris supports BLM and defund the police" with a view to getting them fired up and voting, and also running stuff targetted at black voters pushing "look what Harris did while she was a prosecutor - she's on the side of the establishment and the police..." with a view to getting them pissed off enough that they stay home or vote 3rd party.

There's all sorts of factors will come into play - getting your own voters out, persuading other voters to stay home or waste their votes, right through to Trump's not-so-thinly veiled threats of voter suppression. The next few months are going to get very, very nasty indeed.