Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kamala Harris

292 replies

Xanthangum · 11/08/2020 21:48

... has been selected as Joe Biden's running mate.

Important for all sorts of reasons I feel

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1293281838337871875?s=20

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 13/08/2020 21:36

Fireunder
In any constituency FPTP system, the winner often does not get the most votes.
So be it.

The US needs to sort out Gerrymandering
and voter suppression

but who would you choose to have on the ballot ?

FireUnderTheHand · 13/08/2020 21:21

@ListeningQuietly

Voting third party in a FPTP system is a waste unless your state is a guaranteed one where you can safely protest (eg New York) the risk is just too high

Get rid of Trump
THEN start to walk forwards

I hear you but POTUS isn't a true FPTP election - if it was I could consider your point but the electoral college elects POTUS not the individual.

If POTUS was a true FPTP then Trump wouldn't have been president in the first place as Clinton would be POTUS now (2+% lead of popular vote over Trump).

ListeningQuietly · 13/08/2020 21:19

Fire
As you do not like any of the options of offer
who would be your choices for President, VP and Secretary of state?

FireUnderTheHand · 13/08/2020 21:14

@CousinKrispy

Another American here. I don't live the choice but couldn't face voting third party as I'd see it as a thrown away vote. I think Trump's words and actions against democracy, decency, free press and independent judiciary, rollback of environmental protections etc, etc, are far more serious overall than anything we may have gained from his presidency. He will be replacing yet more Supreme Court justices if he wins. But everyone has to vote according to their own conscience. And it's pretty shit either way.
Completely respect your perspective - 100%!

I just can't with Trump/Pence and Biden/Harris I know too much about all of them - not from the "newsy fake news" but from their work in the positions they've held (pretty much all public record). I am not implying or inferring in any way shape or form that your perspective is from poor news sources (just want to be crystal).

I almost voted differently in the primary for Obama because of Biden... since Anita Hill and his complicit assistance in mass incarceration of minorities for non-violent crimes (mostly drugs) and more and more I can't vote for the guy on his own merit and Harris well her record is a travesty regardless of how brilliant she is. I see Biden/Harris as the other side of the coin of Trump/Pence... same thing different package. Trump is the face Pence is the smarts, Biden would be the face and Harris would be the smarts IMO.

But that's just my opinion and two votes (mine and DH's because we agree and discuss). Compounded with being sick of the Biden robocalls and unsolicited texts and the aggressive solicitation at my front door... was called a fascist on my doorstep for saying I don't support Biden and told that I was a bigot and that people like me are an embarrassment to our nation, same rhetoric as the Bernie Bros. I've had enough.

Biden has what almost 50yrs+/- of contacts in Congress, big pharma, big oil, big tobacco, industrial prison complex, et al and is the former VP... I think he is every bit as dangerous as Trump not because of their abilities. Biden is dangerous because of his vulnerability to being influenced and manipulated by his contacts and handlers (like Trump). Trump is a mouthpiece for big business but he has no clue really wtf is going on. So we trade one old manipulative and manipulated dude for another?

That's my position and I respect other people's rejection of that position.

ListeningQuietly · 13/08/2020 20:33

Voting third party in a FPTP system is a waste
unless your state is a guaranteed one where you can safely protest
(eg New York)
the risk is just too high

Get rid of Trump
THEN start to walk forwards

CousinKrispy · 13/08/2020 20:28

Another American here. I don't live the choice but couldn't face voting third party as I'd see it as a thrown away vote. I think Trump's words and actions against democracy, decency, free press and independent judiciary, rollback of environmental protections etc, etc, are far more serious overall than anything we may have gained from his presidency. He will be replacing yet more Supreme Court justices if he wins. But everyone has to vote according to their own conscience. And it's pretty shit either way.

FireUnderTheHand · 13/08/2020 20:16

Agreed we have two very bad choices but like my fellow UK MN FWR protesters, I will be voting third party for the first time. I don't want to spoil the ballot because here it really makes no difference (they will get thrown away, I've witnessed it with my own eyes in 2016) - voting third party will at least show dissent from both the Reps and Dems.

Abhannmor · 13/08/2020 10:16

The sheer insanity of American politics blinds us to how right wing Harris , Gabbard etc really are I suppose. Keeping ppl in prisons past their terms so she could use them as unpaid fire fighters. Knee jerk support for Israel. ID politics . A more intelligent Priti Patel. Still ....what's the bloody alternative Confused

DianasLasso · 13/08/2020 09:04

I get what you're saying, Fire, but to me it looks like American women have two bad choices on the women's rights front (and one of those choices will be president).

  1. a president from a party where the majority of the party activists don't believe women exist as a political class in their own right, and will outlaw women only safe spaces and sports. But will defend "people with uteruses" rights to abortion and affordable contraception.

  2. Trump - whose party's long term aim is outlawing abortion and making contraception prohibitively expensive.

I don't envy the US being faced with that choice, but I think (2) is going to harm more women, more quickly.

quixote9 · 13/08/2020 00:45

The US, sadly, so far, is hypnotized by the TRA bullshit. You can't be a non-Repub national politician in the US and do anything but repeat the TWAW dogma.

So I'm sure Harris will be coming out with LGBTQIAPQRSTUVW platitudes that will hurt our ears. Only thing to do is ignore it. One: there was nobody in the running for veep who was any different on that. Two: worrying about it in the face of the Handmaid's Tale repubs is like getting upset about a shoplifter when the other side would like to drop an atom bomb on you.

(I'm not saying women's rights aren't vital. I'm saying that I think this is just politician stuff to Harris, not a deeply held belief of her own.)

FireUnderTheHand · 12/08/2020 23:55

@ListeningQuietly

Fireunder But yeah let's totally keep electing elites with great privilege in education, job access Chillax dude You have to start from where you are not where you want to be and the US has to move on from having elected Trump

Comedians and outsiders might make nice headlines
but the boring shit of running FEMA is what makes a good US leader

Really? Ok.

FYI, I have been participating in and playing close attention to politics in my country (US) since I learned about US government in 5th grade. I know where we are and I hate it.

KH's actions speak volumes about how she will serve as VP - she's brilliant, personable, accomplished, but I don't want her in the WH with Biden or (most likely) when Biden is unable to lead (he can't put together a coherent sentence any more than Trump) she will become POTUS and a little less scary than Trump (for reasons central to her actions) based on her track record. With the Secret Service protecting her she will likely become even more insulated and out-of-touch with the common American while the rest of the US non-elite female population face vulnerability (forced and innate) every day... slated to get much worse if Biden'Harris are elected.

Trump is one of the worst things to happen to this country from divisiveness to money-filtering and scare-mongering. He knows what a woman is though (only redeeming quality in my opinion even if it is born of misogyny).

  • protected our female troops (even if it wasn't his intent) by rolling back the transgender inclusion in military (countless female soldiers are raped in war, in barracks, etc.).
  • rolled back Obama guidance for schools (primary, secondary, etc) to allow self-ID in sex-based protected spaces (bathrooms, changing rooms, and sports)
  • rolled back Obama guidance in regards to ACA insofar as re-instituting sex-based protections based on sex not gender identity (Obama guidance was "protections regarding "sex" encompass those based on gender identity, which it defined as "male, female, neither, or a combination of male and female")... this ties in with my experience at the OBGYN mentioned in my earlier post; care should not be withheld or denied to anyone in need of care but the sex-based protections of care must be upheld (from hospital wards to ability to choose a female HCP)

He is an awful person doing awful things in most arenas but as sad as it is (except for abortion which naturally is a huge issue) he has actively done more to protect sex-based rights by rolling back guidance than any other POTUS in recent history (who knows what his motivation is?!?!? I only care about the effect of the rollbacks). I didn't vote for him, I won't vote for him because of his actions in most arenas but in regards to my rights as a woman he is the most likely to keep those sex markers firmly in their own boxes now whether that is purely his misogyny or for some other reason I don't care but it is the truth.

So tell me to 'Chillax Dude' all you want no worries. Smile

I live here and am not elite - I come from the poorest of poor in this nation (Appalachia). My mother was the first in all generations of her entire family to get a college degree and was coined an outsider for being college educated as she was 'too big for her britches' because people like us don't get educations or have ambition... we just get by and take care of our own (read: have babies and cater to men).
She has fought since she was a child to be treated fairly rejecting the system all the way and is losing her mind worrying about the rest of my future. Only one of my 59 cousins has an education beyond high school and most didn't get past 10th grade. This is the reality of many (if not most) Americans.

I've been on my own since 16yrs old and have experienced and been exposed to terrifying things, life-altering physically destructive things due to my sex and size (shortish and petite) that my DH calls me 'the warrior'. KH likely has no idea personally what it is to be homeless or need rape crisis care (if she does I am even more surprised by her intent to rework sex-based rights into gender identity) but I personally know it so very well.

So yes start from where we are, but that doesn't mean that we have to continue to pick from the 'lesser evils' - we need a revamp and a true ejection of most of Congress as well as POTUS. But I also get your point - perhaps I am a little whimsical about hoping for better but considering what we're in for on both sides I almost prefer anarchy.

DianasLasso · 12/08/2020 22:54

Overall from my Brit perspective she looks like a good choice.

I've seen several people (not just here) float the idea that because she's a former prosecutor, and BLM is behind "defund the police" she'll lose the Democrats a sizeable chunk of the black vote. My hunch is that this is not so, on the basis of the old adage "Twitter is not real life": there may be a small minority who feel that way, but my guess is not most black voters (who will have a variety of opinions from "Anyone to beat Trump" through to "What the hell's wrong with a black prosecutor anyway? More power to her elbow.")

My other instinctive reaction is that any voter (of whatever ethnicity, but I guess mainly white) who's the type of person who could be put off by her being black and/or female was overwhelmingly likely to vote Trump anyway.

But like I say I'm a Brit looking in from outside - I'd be interested to hear the views of Americans on this.

FireUnderTheHand · 12/08/2020 22:03

@xxyzz

I liked her anyway.

Very pleased she's been chosen. The link someone posted upthread from a US LGBTQ site noted that she was very pro-LGB rights but was less into the T.

I'm very wary of posters appearing on here trying to argue that Harris might be bad for women. I don't think it's women saying that. Hmm It's not rocket science - she is clearly a million times better for women than Trump or Pence.

No contest. Plus she has a high likelihood of then being the first female US President, which is pretty cool for women.

Be wary all you want, I was born and live here - my perspective counts just like yours (even though you don't live here).

Thanks for implying that I and other posters disagreeing are men... just because I can see through the bullshit it doesn't negate my femaleness in all its glory and trappings.

And I disagree - if she and Biden continue to genuflect at the altars of the wokerati being female won't be protected and the abuse and garbage that we US women will face won't have a name in law. We will disappear as the sub-women to men appropriating the female category.

Side note - I went to the OBGYN earlier this week for endo issues and made it clear that I refuse to have a male nurse assisting (for Dr security they attend) my female OBGYN... prior to disrobing the female nurse left and when the Dr. came back with the attending nurse it was a dude and here I was boobs out, no bottoms on under a sheet with an uninvited/unwelcome man in the room. Now I don't think he cared to look or be creepy (he is very flamboyantly gay and a joy to interact with) but that isn't the point, the point is that in law (at least for now) I have a right to refuse a male HCP especially in intimate care. I am a CSA and rape survivor as well as endometriosis sufferer (currently stage 3 rushing towards stage 4) why in the fuck do I have to erode my own boundaries to receive care ($900/mo. for health insurance and $150 co-pays for OBGYN)... if I am treated like that and pay so much how in the fuck are women who depend on federally funded care treated?!?!? At least I can fight back, choose another Dr., etc. - my counterparts in the less financially stable realm do not have that luxury. I told them that I am reporting them to the medical board and my health insurance carrier for violating my right to female intimate care by females. I was told that I was being ridiculous. This is life BEFORE all of my sex-based protections disappear.

NearlyGranny · 12/08/2020 22:01

There's bound to be "dungeon full of trafficked kids under the pizza parlour" stuff being generated by students paid by the word even as we post. It's totally predictable and how politics works, especially in the Trump, post-truth, alternative facts world we all now inhabit.

We need to remember that a lie can be halfway around the world before the truth has finished pulling its boots on.

I'm taking nothing at face value.

ListeningQuietly · 12/08/2020 21:58

DuDuDuLang
This page is update in August 2020
Harris blocked nothing
no prisoner has been exonerated
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Cooper_(prisoner)

Therefore I'll stick with her being a good thing
and the interweb as being full of fake news

ListeningQuietly · 12/08/2020 21:54

She blocked access to the DNA testing that later exonerated Kevin Cooper
Do you have a link for that (of the broadsheet news variety)

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 12/08/2020 21:50

@ListeningQuietly

Dududu She is and has always been against the death penalty. She has to work within the legal framework (which is broken) But has a chance to change it now (hopefully)
She blocked access to the DNA testing that later exonerated Kevin Cooper.

I’m a big believer in judging people by actions rather than words.

Harris is a bad pick for this moment in time, doesn’t matter how accomplished or clever she is.

ListeningQuietly · 12/08/2020 21:50

Fireunder
But yeah let's totally keep electing elites with great privilege in education, job access
Chillax dude
You have to start from where you are not where you want to be
and the US has to move on from having elected Trump

Comedians and outsiders might make nice headlines
but the boring shit of running FEMA is what makes a good US leader

FireUnderTheHand · 12/08/2020 21:40

Nice, my post was deleted and why? From what I can tell it did not violate the Talk Guidelines - I have never had this issue before.

I am an American who is affected by the political system here and disagree with both parties. It is all a bunch of white old dudes playing circle jerk with other people's lives - lives that mostly will never experience the wealth and privilege they enjoy (KH as a VP pick was just strategic - it was stated as a fact many times that he was picking specifically a black woman as a running mate - not the best candidate but a candidate based on demographics first with credentials being the second consideration). For the record, KH is more than educated enough, successful enough, rich enough, etc. to fit the bill - she is more than capable of the VP position... more capable than Biden in regards to presidency IMO but still a bad choice for women. The people that support them when it is so completely obvious that it is all about prestige, money, and power and has zero to do with the remaining 97% of the population's needs (FYI, KH is in the 3% due to being able to work her way in - and I think that is wonderful for her and her family) are willfully blind. The truth is the 3% don't care about us or our needs unless it is a soundbite that serves their agenda. LESS THAN 10% OF AMERICAN HOUSEHOLDS QUALIFY AS 'COMFORTABLE'... that speaks volumes.

But yeah let's totally keep electing elites with great privilege in education, job access (IT IS about who you know here, not what you are capable of), more $$ in their accounts than thousands of normal Americans combined, and have corporations as their overlords. Rich people pander to rich people to stay rich and keep the poor, poor... so that they have the worker bees to do their bidding (scrub their toilets, raise their kids, carry their garbage away, wait on them, etc.) not hard to understand.

Biden and Harris both have contributed directly to mass incarceration of minorities - all for the industrial for-profit prison complex. This greatly contributes to wealth disparities - in every community.

Those that believe KH will be better than any of the other political entrenched wealth-supported virtue signaling wokerati either have no skin in the game or no commitment to Women's Sex-based Rights. I live here these laws affect my day-to-day and considering I voted for Obama in both elections only to be slighted by his 'being nice' in regards to gender identity I have a very strong position. I have no regrets about voting for him and am very happy with a great deal of what he accomplished but incredibly disheartened about his rollback of sex-based rights.

KH's vocal support of gender identity being ratified into law - effectively erasing sex-based protections - did none of you read her policy site when it was up?

I devour every candidate's policies in order to be well informed. Tulsi while not well received was our best option for Dem candidate IMO but she didn't fit the far left's identity politics as she exists in material reality (she's Samoan and isn't included in identity politics through the 'acceptable' lens, she isn't LGBTQ++, and she doesn't subscribe to TWAW). And while I disagree with Tulsi's previous stance on gay marriage at least she hasn't lost the plot and sees why gay marriage is important and necessary. But, she still acknowledges and supports sex-based rights in tandem with LGB rights and Trans rights as a separate but equal category.

Those that can't see what I am saying are buying into this corrupt system that has oppressed women (black women especially, who are used as a tool of manipulation - subhuman to be shit on and used in every arena) since inception. Mind blowing considering the history of black women throughout US history (most notably in the Civil War as they were quite effective in fighting for the freedom enslaved blacks. Mary Bowser's espionage was likely the greatest asset to the Union above and beyond the soldiers; after being freed she willingly posed as a slave in the Confederate White House to carry out the espionage that she and her former 'owner' abolitionist Bet Van Lew (daughter of 'owner' that inherited Mary) formulated and carried out in genius ways ultimately providing General Grant with insanely important intel greatly contributing to the fall of the Confederacy.

KH now makes jokes about marijuana but she has quite a record of prosecuting marijuana (possession) charges, she championed a law that literally put parents in jail for schoolchild truancy, ignored police abuse when there are well known cases of Californian corrupt police departments and police departments that engaged in the rape and abuse of many young women. She chose to focus on apps that facilitate prostitution rather than prosecuting policemen that abused as well as took part in trafficking and rape of young women because they weren't important to her platform (they would have damaged it for sure as the AG) - the optics of the app were bigger and more 'sensational' and most importantly (for her) did not alienate her from the police and wealthy elites.

I don't care what KH's demographics mean to the wider population... I care about her positions on policy and how the translation of those positions will affect the most marginalized/downtrodden/abused in our already corrupt society (women, children, MH patients, etc.). It is important that girls have representatives they can look up to - so they can imagine themselves in those roles but not to the detriment of their sex-based rights. Female DV survivors, rape survivors, et al being forced to share spaces with men that 'feel like women' - is a travesty, a tragedy, an inhumanity that is beyond the pale eroding boundaries and diffusing any possibility of them speaking out ... females and transgender individuals need to be afforded the same safety/dignity/boundaries so they need their own separate spaces.

NearlyGranny · 12/08/2020 18:57

I listened to this hot-off-the-mike Anericast on Kamala Harris this afternoon which might be a good starting point for those who want to know a bit about her.
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p08nd5x8

NearlyGranny · 12/08/2020 18:50

Well, Harris is reportedly a transphobe and a trans ally, depending who you believe! It will be interesting to see how she shapes up if elected. The Trump campaign is painting her as far left while those to the left are disappointed at her not being left enough but too much in the middle. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Never was it more true that you can't please all of the people! Rather like Obama 12 years ago, expectations of her are sky high, and she is doomed to disappoint some. Luckily, she seems smart enough and tough enough to persist despite the slings and arrows already coming her way.

All being well Covid-wise I plan to be in the States at election time (deep in Trump territory!) and I look forward to an exciting time there. 😳

xxyzz · 12/08/2020 18:41

I liked her anyway.

Very pleased she's been chosen. The link someone posted upthread from a US LGBTQ site noted that she was very pro-LGB rights but was less into the T.

I'm very wary of posters appearing on here trying to argue that Harris might be bad for women. I don't think it's women saying that. Hmm It's not rocket science - she is clearly a million times better for women than Trump or Pence.

No contest. Plus she has a high likelihood of then being the first female US President, which is pretty cool for women.

FireUnderTheHand · 12/08/2020 18:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ListeningQuietly · 12/08/2020 17:08

Sanders is like Corbyn
A remote idealist whose ideas have never been tested
his devotees think he can walk on water
the experience of Corbyn shows that pragmatists are what is needed in high office