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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another incredibly annoying Guardian article

108 replies

xxyzz · 10/08/2020 19:40

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/10/trans-rights-feminist-letter-rebecca-solnit

Apologies if already posted here - couldn't see it.

Apologies also to anyone else as irked by it as me. I just want to hear some other people also express that it is like nails on a blackboard in its utter tone-deaf wrongness throughout.

OP posts:
DocOfTheBay · 11/08/2020 02:52

It reads like an essay by a 12 year old.

nepeta · 11/08/2020 01:03

I don't think she is a great critical thinker. She certainly is NOT a great researcher. She is, however. a very good writer, and she has that odd talent of sometimes intuitively catching one important thing and pointing it out.

But this one is just more of the same be kind and bend over I have heard women told for the last decade on this issue. So their rights will be gouged out of yours? But they are so miserable! Be nice.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 11/08/2020 00:16

Solnit

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 11/08/2020 00:16

I have never actually heard of, or read of, let alone seen, an incident in which a trans woman or girl somehow caused unpleasantness in a women’s room

Ms Sonit would have found a string of criminal convictions for this very offence if she had done 5 minutes research, very easily, online. But that would involve looking up facts, which is obviously too much to expect.

stumbledin · 10/08/2020 23:30

hippy dippy

I just used that phrase because that's what I got from the article.

Her arguement was that she is immensely informed because she grew up in San Francisco and had this really cool experience.

That's not a rational response to gender critical feminism.

It doesn't matter who she is or might have been, or previously said.

This is just terrible 6th Form self engrossment.

But as if any of us need it does confirm that the Guardian has about as much relationship to a "news" paper as the Daily Star does!

Portnlemon · 10/08/2020 23:18

I remember Rebecca Solnit as being good, didn't she write Men Explain Things to Me?

They do, Rebecca. You don't have to believe them.

NearlyGranny · 10/08/2020 22:56

But this is Solnit - hugely respected. Has someone hijacked her computer? I can only hope so. 😟

LillianBland · 10/08/2020 22:50

@FWRLurker

“men should stop explaining things to women”

“Oh, But I’m a woman not a man”

“Oh, in that case, Explain away!!!”

🤣
FWRLurker · 10/08/2020 22:45

“men should stop explaining things to women”

“Oh, But I’m a woman not a man”

“Oh, in that case, Explain away!!!”

CommunistLegoBloc · 10/08/2020 22:31

This is so disappointing. I loved her essay collection. I have also recently been disappointed by Jessica Valenti. It's so crushing when brilliant, thoughtful and insightful women basically burn the body of their work in favour of wokeness and centering men.

Abhannmor · 10/08/2020 22:30

Oh dear. Won't some nice young man explain this whole situation to Rebecca? It won't count as Mansplaining. Really.

Summerhillsquare · 10/08/2020 21:55

I love Rebecca Solnit. A profoundly critical thinker - usually. Bitterly disappointed by this. If anyone could make a case that TWAW it should be her.

LillianBland · 10/08/2020 21:53

I remember Rebecca Solnit as being good, didn't she write Men Explain Things to Me?

I think she’s now requesting that men explain things to her.

we thought gender really was kind of binary and defined by genitals; science has gotten smarter in the decades since and we now know it’s a complex interplay of chromosomes, hormones, primary and secondary sexual characteristics and other stuff, some of which is in the brain not the pants,

So genitalia has nothing to do with it? Can she then explain all the male bodied people who identify as trans who now claim to be lesbians. Note, for people who tell us that what is in a person pants, isn’t important, they don’t claim to be bisexual, but lesbian. Very strange. You’d nearly think that they were actually attracted to female genitalia, but surely not! 🤔

xxyzz · 10/08/2020 21:48

The kindest explanation is that in the US where Trump is using attacks on trans rights as a vote-winner, the woke left feels duty bound to stand up for trans rights even when it means running roughshod over women's rights.

Of course, if they stopped to think about it, they might realise that Trump isn't exactly hot on women's rights either, and that your enemy's enemy is not necessarily your friend.

OP posts:
Apollo440 · 10/08/2020 21:40

It's no wonder this toilet rag of a newspaper doesn't allow comments. The sooner they go bust the better (and that's from a former reader).

NotBadConsidering · 10/08/2020 21:37

She reveals herself to be someone who doesn’t appreciate other people want boundaries and has buried her head in the sand concrete of the streets of San Francisco and has literally stated “this never happens”.

I went to my first gay bar here when I was about 14, with a gay man who was the kindest person in my adolescence

I mean no wonder. As a child, she was taught it was ok for kids to hang out in bars. Well it may be lovely in the old days of San Francisco but a 14 year old girl being taken to bars by a man anywhere else would be a huge red flag.

There are so many other parts where she puts all the dots there but doesn’t join them, but I don’t have time to go through them right now, but the worst is the insistence that “it will never happen” when there are examples of it happening and a whole thread here collating it is either pure gaslighting or she doesn’t ever read anything outside of her little woke bubble.

CasuallyMasculine · 10/08/2020 21:37

@StrangeLookingParasite

More strawmen than a fucking scarecrow convention.
Grin
StrangeLookingParasite · 10/08/2020 21:36

Transphobes are always warning us that if trans people live in peace and legal recognition and even have rights, there will be terrible consequences

Garbage.

I have been using public restrooms in this exceptionally gender-diverse city for the past 40-something years, and also reading the local and national papers, plus I know a lot of schoolteachers and parents of schoolchildren, and in all that time I have never actually heard of, or read of, let alone seen, an incident in which a trans woman or girl somehow caused unpleasantness in a women’s room

No, I suppose if you have your fingers stuffed in your ears, while yelling 'la, la la' as loudly as possible, you won(t have seen or heard anything.

I don't think I have the stomach to keep going.

CasuallyMasculine · 10/08/2020 21:34

feminism is a subcategory of human rights advocacy, which means, sorry, you can’t be a feminist if you’re not for everyone’s human rights, notably other women’s rights

Sounds a bit All Lives Matter to me Hmm

StrangeLookingParasite · 10/08/2020 21:34

More strawmen than a fucking scarecrow convention.

peadarm · 10/08/2020 21:28

“ in all that time I have never actually heard of, or read of, let alone seen, an incident in which a trans woman or girl somehow caused unpleasantness in a women’s room, and it does not appear to be something anyone worries about here.“

The three wise monkeys come to mind.

She must have also deliberately avoided all the actual and misogynistic threats ‘posed’ on Twitter and at numerous feminist meetings.

OldCrone · 10/08/2020 21:24

sorry I can’t stop boasting about my city: the first man to give birth was in San Francisco

No man has ever given birth.

OldCrone · 10/08/2020 21:22

It’s great that people can transition earlier, and in those early cases parents and medical experts tend to be exceedingly careful about how those decisions are made, and a few of those parents are my friends and family, and in their kids’ cases it’s worked out really well.

So she is close to some people who have 'trans kids'. It's important for her to convince herself that they have done the right thing, because the alternative is too grim to think about.

meg70 · 10/08/2020 21:21

feminism is a subcategory of human rights advocacy, which means, sorry, you can’t be a feminist if you’re not for everyone’s human rights, notably other women’s rights 'other women's rights'? because you say so? "sorry" (not sorry) Ms womansplainer, I disagree. I am and I can be a feminist, and actual women's rights - and safety - are what I'm all about right now.