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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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"She looks like a right tramp"

245 replies

Moranne · 09/08/2020 10:32

On our local FB group (I know!) somebody has shared a video of a couple dealing drugs outside his front garden. She appears to be weighing out a quantity.
There's been a lot of discussion about logging it with the police, how they're a well-known problem around the area etc. And then somebody has just said, ""She looks like a right tramp".

I'm so frustrated with this comment, the subtext and the message it sends. I want to respond calmly, I don't want to let it go unaddressed, but I can't find the words.

How do you think I should respond?

OP posts:
FrogspawnSmoothie · 10/08/2020 01:20

It isn't a sexist comment, its observation.

To be fair, this is how I took it. It's no doubt a term mainly used for women, but it's more about them being unkempt and scruffy than about her attractiveness. To me it's like saying "He looks like a right Kev." Or a 'Barry'.

Notredamn · 10/08/2020 00:56

I wasn't 'trying' to find a less offensive meaning. I'm not one to launch into mental gymnastics to excuse misogyny. I call it where I see it. Every. Single. Time.
In this case I was genuinely confused as I've never, being British, ever heard the word 'tramp' to mean anything other than lowlife/vagrant/homeless/scruffy (all horrible!)
And anyway, most misogynists would just go straight in with slag/slut/insert other less ambiguous term to say what they really mean, rather than a passé not-quite-as-cutting American term.

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/08/2020 23:48

It's interesting the posters trying to find the least offensive interpretation when normally FWR is all over class analysis.

If it quacks and waddles, it's a duck. This man clearly reserves his misogyny for those that 'deserve' it.

Notredamn · 09/08/2020 22:21

Missed that, queen- sorry! How utterly bizarre, then.

TehBewilderness · 09/08/2020 21:58

The man made myth about women getting lighter sentences than men do in criminal cases is fully operational in the drug dealers world. That is why you so often see a woman holding the drugs while the man holds the money.

queenofknives · 09/08/2020 20:53

[quote Notredamn ]I still think my interpretation of the word, the way it is commonly used in the UK, fits more with the context of the post being about drug dealers. [/quote]
The person who said it, when asked to clarify, said he meant she looked like a slut. So the OP's interpretation was obviously more correct than yours.

Notredamn · 09/08/2020 20:06

I still think my interpretation of the word, the way it is commonly used in the UK, fits more with the context of the post being about drug dealers.

Moranne · 09/08/2020 19:18

Thank you to posters for your guidance, insight and helping my thinking.

OP posts:
Moranne · 09/08/2020 19:16

'Tramp' has no sexual connotations whatsoever where I live, quite the opposite. It means 'scruffy'/'homeless'- pejorative language, but not sexist. This is why I'm confused.

Where I live, where the post was made, it is equivalent to slut or slag. It would not be used in the old fashioned way about a man.

the OP thinks this is more important than considering how best to deal with the criminal and antisocial behaviour.

You have no idea what I think about criminal and antisocial behaviour, but you still feel qualified to comment.

OP posts:
DidoLamenting · 09/08/2020 18:26

You are clearly happy with that, the OP is not. Framing this as excusing the actual crime is self-aggrandising claptrap

Ooh I do love a straw man. It's the one of the favourite FWR put downs. I do enjoy getting to use it

I did not "frame this as excusing the crime"
I queried why the OP had no interest in the actual crime so stop making things up

DidoLamenting · 09/08/2020 18:21

What disingenuous response. The OP has been pretty clear that she regards the drug dealing as a serious issue in its own right

What an equally disingenuous response

Where has she said this? Certainly not in her opening post. She makes no comment at all beyond the woman was weighing out drugs.

Notredamn · 09/08/2020 18:07

'Tramp' has no sexual connotations whatsoever where I live, quite the opposite. It means 'scruffy'/'homeless'- pejorative language, but not sexist. This is why I'm confused.

NiceGerbil · 09/08/2020 17:26

Round here she looks like a tramp is more likely to mean sexually. I'm not in USA.

I agree with OP. Man responds to post about drug dealing by saying woman looks like a slag, essentially. WTF.

Antibles · 09/08/2020 17:22

I can't understand why some posters have a problem with the OP posting this. Yes it's an aside to the drug dealing, but it's perfect on-topic for FWR to discuss the tangent of sexist language.

Scratch the surface and see how many men disrespect females at some level for having sex, especially with more than one man. So if she's doing one morally dodgy activity (drug dealing) he's very ready to accuse her of another (shagging about, the slut).

Singasonga · 09/08/2020 17:21

I'm equally puzzled at why in relation to the criminal and antisocial behaviour of this woman the OP thinks this is more important than considering how best to deal with the criminal and antisocial behaviour.*
*
What disingenuous response. The OP has been pretty clear that she regards the drug dealing as a serious issue in its own right. It has nothing to do with the sexual appeal of the perpetrator, or how many people she has or hasn't slept with.

As ever, the right regards women as private property, and the left as public property. Calling her a "tramp" is an example of the former - if she sells drugs, she must also by extension not have an owner.

You are clearly happy with that, the OP is not. Framing this as excusing the actual crime is self-aggrandising claptrap.

Notredamn · 09/08/2020 17:07

Is this in the US?

Looneytune253 · 09/08/2020 17:03

I don't see 'tramp' as a sexual term to be fair. Maybe they shouldn't be commenting on someone else's dress at all but to me tramp is equal to scruffy. Tramp in a sexual way is Americanised

maddiemookins16mum · 09/08/2020 17:01

They use skank on our local FB page when the ‘well known’ couple are spotted up to their usual tricks.

NearlyGranny · 09/08/2020 17:00

"No insult is out of line " ?!

Wow. Scratch the surface a bit and there it is, staring at you, I guess.

NearlyGranny · 09/08/2020 16:53

Nice vocabulary for a C21st man! Tell him the 1920s called and wants it's old pejorative slurs for women back. He probably wouldn't get it, though. 🤷🏼‍♀️

queenofknives · 09/08/2020 16:35

@Moranne

Good luck. Let us know how it goes!

"I mean that she's a slut, but a slut that is disguised as a lady".

Well, he exposed himself as a misogynist and anyone with a brain will have clocked that. Well done for challenging him.
queenofknives · 09/08/2020 16:34

@Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel

Why do you care what a drug dealing problematic woman is called? She's a drug dealer. No insult is out of line.
Right, so would you say the same if she was a black woman and the person made a racist comment about her?

The thing is, it's about principles. If we say that misogyny and racism and homophobia are not okay then that has to be in every circumstance and apply to everyone. Otherwise we are saying that it's okay to be racist/misogynistic/homophobic when we don't like the person and you get to decide whether that person 'deserves' the insult or not.

Yeah, can't see how that could go wrong.

katy1213 · 09/08/2020 16:26

Misogynistic treatment of drug dealers - oh, that keeps me awake at night!

Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel · 09/08/2020 16:21

Why do you care what a drug dealing problematic woman is called? She's a drug dealer. No insult is out of line.

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/08/2020 16:20

@DidoLamenting

To be honest I find the responses on here bizarre. I can't work up a head of steam because someone was a bit sexist about a drug dealer openly dealing. What a non point in the context of the actual incident.
I think it's illuminating. If people only restrain sexist language about nice women, and let it spew out about women who aren't nice, it was always there, they were just hiding it. You see similar with female politicians, JKR and others. As soon as the expectation of niceties disappears, the flood of sexist, misogynist language comes out. And normally with a sense of glee that is quite unpalatable.