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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

More places asking me to state my prounouns. WWYD?

182 replies

GennyCrabby · 08/08/2020 09:44

For obvious reasons I don't want to state my pronouns. I have an obviously female name and woman figure and if somebody accidentally "misgendered" me I'd be happy to correct them no hard feelings.

I'm finding in this strange year that more and more places online are asking for prounouns. Anybody else experiencing this? So far it's been a request, and I've been able to just ignore it.

The requests at the beginning of zoom calls are getting more emphatic and less like a choice Hmm. I'm working with different people so it could be that, but my sense is more and more that I'm being one of the fewer and fewer in the call(s) who don't change my name to include my pronouns I stand out more and more as GC. For somebody who is deliberately not "out" it's getting very uncomfortable.

I requested to joined a Facebook group last night. This morning I woke up to an "introduce yourself!" post that instructed (not requested) us to declare our pronouns. I've ignored that bit, but the way it was phrased it's obvious I have ignored it and i wonder if I'm going to be prompted again. If pushed I think I'll go the "my prounouns are sex based" or "oh yeah sure I'm female Smile" route or drop the admin a PM saying I am uncomfortable stating my pronouns and hope they leave it as that.

The second is more delicate, because it's a session for my hobby that I want to go to that is being run by a trans man. I'm very happy to use their preferred pronouns and don't wish in the slightest to do or say anything against them - I am after all despite what many would claim, not transphobic, I wish him peace and he's a big deal in this field, I'd love to learn from him. Equally, I feel strongly enough about my own rights and views that I just don't want to state my pronouns. Help! How on earth would you handle this delicately and with grace?

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 08/08/2020 11:04

Oh I'm dreading this.
My pronouns are the general female ones, but being asked what i would prefer would be difficult for me because I dont care but would love to be able to identify out of being female
I find it quite stressful tbh - same with being asked about sexuality, religion, disability. I tick "prefer not to say" whenever it's an option

Yeah. I grew up when it was de rigueur for feminists not to state their sex on forms and to write applications in relatively gender-neutral terms because we knew that outing ourselves as women would likely mean we were passed over - pretending to be a bloke would at least get us in the door to an interview where we'd have to answer questions about our breeding habits. This has changed some for the better, but not wholly. I would still like to keep me sexed identity hidden on many occasions - putting pronouns is like an invite to discriminate on the basis of sex.

Floisme · 08/08/2020 11:02

I'm not comfortable stating my pronouns, but you can call me
There's a danger that this could lead to further probing (possibly not in the meeting but afterwards) e.g. 'Do you mean you never use pronouns?' etc. I think you need an answer that is sufficient in itself.

truth be told I DO have a preference, my biological sex based pronouns.
I think normally it's better to be as true to yourself as you can so could you base your answer around this? e.g. 'I prefer to use the pronouns for my biological sex, which is...'

Personally I wouldn't bother with the smile. Just be courteous.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/08/2020 10:53

It. Haha. I have some family who naturally don’t use pronouns in mother tongue. I’m not unused to being called ‘he’.

GennyCrabby · 08/08/2020 10:50

Ask people to vote? Or demand everyone just uses the same one.

Given the studies on sex discrimination and the fact that my sex/gender/fairy identity is irrelevant in these situations I'm all for everybody using one neutral one.

OP posts:
JKRisaqueen · 08/08/2020 10:46

God I made a mess of that. I wish there was an edit function. I meant to say 'I don't feel comfortable in being part of compelled speech. It feels like bullying to me. I think people should be free to refer to me in any way they see fit.'

GennyCrabby · 08/08/2020 10:45

Some really useful replies here thanks.

@Deltoids1

I know it’s not comfortable going against the flow but I would just state “I am not comfortable stating my pronouns, please refer to me how you see fit.”

I like this, although truth be told I DO have a preference, my biological sex based pronouns. My reasons for resisting having to state them has more to do with resisting normalising the concept that woman is a choice not a biological fact. I am thinking of modifying this to "thank you for asking, I'm not comfortable stating my prounouns, but you can call me " with a warm smile. What do you think? Even if it's a demand not a request, me assuming it is a request puts them in a bad light if they push further.

Because fundamentally, how the other react to that polite request tells you all you need to know about the group.

Totally agree.

I do believe if we, individually, don’t go along with this crap then we cause some resistance in real life. So many women have been incredibly brave and publicly stood up to this crap, they need our backing even in small ways.

I do agree with you. That's why I'm having this discussion here, after all. I'm just very conscious that anything I do under my own name could get me doxxed. Me being doxxed has serious professional repercussions. I'm very acutely aware of the importance of not just complying (again, that's why this thread is here) and also balancing that with my personal needs.

OP posts:
JKRisaqueen · 08/08/2020 10:43

How about saying 'I don't feel comfortable in being part of compelled speech. It feels linne bullying to me. I think like people to be free to refer to me in any way they see fit.' Hear hear to the poster who said that we need to show solidarity to the women who have been brave enough to stand up against this. As that nazi scholar (Dietrich hoffmann??) said 'not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act. '

TeenPlusTwenties · 08/08/2020 10:40

I guess your pronouns are the ones you use to refer to yourself.
So 'I', 'me', 'mine', 'myself'?

SerenityNowwwww · 08/08/2020 10:40

Ask people to vote? Or demand everyone just uses the same one.

EdgeOfACoin · 08/08/2020 10:33

And if they press you for your gender identity, play dumb:

'Gender identity? What's that?'

'Oh, I don't know what mine is. How can you tell?'

'I don't know if I do always feel like a woman - some days I think I feel like a man! What does "feeling like a woman" feel like?'

'Well sometimes I do like watching the rugby and having a beer. What does that mean? Should I consider myself non binary?'

'To be honest, I still don't have a preference about my pronouns. Call me what you want.'

Just act confused and like you hadn't given the matter any thought whatsoever.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/08/2020 10:25

I haven’t in person but have on forms. If I’m being kind I ask for the relevance to the form/ questionnaire. No one has ever actually got back to me on that - especially the one sent by a business set up for women asking about how women were managing with lockdown - ie childcare, home tutoring, looking after elders/shielding, managing relationships and homeworking, housework, plus job security, pay cuts, etc.

I even emailed the MD To ask why they didn’t ask my sex but suggested a long list of ‘gender identity’ instead but she didn’t reply...

EdgeOfACoin · 08/08/2020 10:23

Yeah, I was going to say that you should say you're not bothered/don't mind/don't have a preference.

I think it undermines the entire concept without being adversarial.

Floisme · 08/08/2020 10:18

I haven't had to yet but:

I don't have a gender identity.
Or
I am not comfortable sharing my gender identity.
Or
I have no preferred pronouns.

Is what I'm planning to do.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/08/2020 10:14

Or ask them to explain what this is and why. Again and again - imagine explaining how the toaster works to your dog. Practice the head tilt confused expression and ‘urrrrghhhhh?’ Noise.

Dyrne · 08/08/2020 10:10

Out-woke them. Privately contact the organiser and point out that forcing people to disclose their pronouns may forcibly “Out” someone against their will; or make them uncomfortable lying to colleagues and friends if they’re not ready to come out yet.

Either that or a firm “I do not feel comfortable disclosing my pronouns”.

Hellbentwellwent · 08/08/2020 10:10

Or I don’t have ‘preferred’ pronouns, I just use and expect the people around me to use the pronouns based on my biological sex which is female

SerenityNowwwww · 08/08/2020 10:08

So not only do you need to sit and listen through ‘my name is X, I go by Xu/Xe’, remember all the variations and remember to use the right one for the right person whilst also remembering that ‘MaryJane is a He - so are they gay, trans, whatever - mustn’t say anything to offend MaryJane...’

Hellbentwellwent · 08/08/2020 10:07

My pronouns are ‘terf, terfx’

HopelessSemantics · 08/08/2020 10:06

I just say I don't care because I don't. No one has misgendered me yet so I assume it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.

DialSquare · 08/08/2020 10:06

@SatanicDesk

How about a lighthearted “call me whatever you want... just call me Wink”
Or

"Call me what you like just don't call me late for my dinner!"

One of my Dads favourites.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/08/2020 10:06

Just refuse. It’s not relevant. It’s nobody’s business unless you are one of the special ones.

AriettyHomily · 08/08/2020 10:05

I haven't come across this yet apart from me thank fuck.

CasuallyMasculine · 08/08/2020 10:05

I was at a conference about supporting LGBTQI+ young people and were asked to introduce ourselves and give our pronouns.

I just said my name and that I didn’t have preferred pronouns. A couple of people were surprised but no-one can force you to say something about yourself that isn’t true.

SatanicDesk · 08/08/2020 10:04

How about a lighthearted “call me whatever you want... just call me Wink”

QuentinWinters · 08/08/2020 09:56

Oh I'm dreading this.
My pronouns are the general female ones, but being asked what i would prefer would be difficult for me because I dont care but would love to be able to identify out of being female
I find it quite stressful tbh - same with being asked about sexuality, religion, disability. I tick "prefer not to say" whenever it's an option

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