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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

More places asking me to state my prounouns. WWYD?

182 replies

GennyCrabby · 08/08/2020 09:44

For obvious reasons I don't want to state my pronouns. I have an obviously female name and woman figure and if somebody accidentally "misgendered" me I'd be happy to correct them no hard feelings.

I'm finding in this strange year that more and more places online are asking for prounouns. Anybody else experiencing this? So far it's been a request, and I've been able to just ignore it.

The requests at the beginning of zoom calls are getting more emphatic and less like a choice Hmm. I'm working with different people so it could be that, but my sense is more and more that I'm being one of the fewer and fewer in the call(s) who don't change my name to include my pronouns I stand out more and more as GC. For somebody who is deliberately not "out" it's getting very uncomfortable.

I requested to joined a Facebook group last night. This morning I woke up to an "introduce yourself!" post that instructed (not requested) us to declare our pronouns. I've ignored that bit, but the way it was phrased it's obvious I have ignored it and i wonder if I'm going to be prompted again. If pushed I think I'll go the "my prounouns are sex based" or "oh yeah sure I'm female Smile" route or drop the admin a PM saying I am uncomfortable stating my pronouns and hope they leave it as that.

The second is more delicate, because it's a session for my hobby that I want to go to that is being run by a trans man. I'm very happy to use their preferred pronouns and don't wish in the slightest to do or say anything against them - I am after all despite what many would claim, not transphobic, I wish him peace and he's a big deal in this field, I'd love to learn from him. Equally, I feel strongly enough about my own rights and views that I just don't want to state my pronouns. Help! How on earth would you handle this delicately and with grace?

OP posts:
FemaleAndLearning · 08/08/2020 13:18

I would say I don't know I've never really thought about it so just use what you think is appropriate, or some of the other non confrontational ways listed up thread. I agree that pronouns are for the person talking not who you talk to. So when I am speaking I use I, me, mine.
If you have a PhD you could say called me Dr! Actually that is a title not a pronoun.

NewNewt · 08/08/2020 13:12

I put me, my, mine on my slack profile at work, no one has said anything yet. Slack is quite lighthearted so I thought I'd start there.

We have also recently been strongly encouraged to do this. So now virtually everyone has (he, his) or (she, hers) after their names.

Ballyhopper · 08/08/2020 13:07

"I don't have a preference" and I'll bet you they default to the obvious sex-based pronouns, even though apparently there's literally no way to know someone's sex or gender unless you ask them Hmm

EverardDigby · 08/08/2020 12:56

It really pisses me off though, as it would probably be assumed because of my age (early 50s) that I'm just old fashioned and out of date, when in fact I'm bisexual (identified as just a lesbian for a decade) and presented as a boy myself for a few years. It's tempting to add I have a "trans" history just to confound them.

DidoLamenting · 08/08/2020 12:49

@EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus

Quoting from TyroSaysMeow on www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a3985745-Asked-to-put-preferred-pronouns-on-email-signature?msgid=98903985#98903985

‘There's a thread just been bumped on FWR about the Yogyakarta Principles - international best practice for accommodating trans people apparently.

"Ensure the right of all persons ordinarily to choose when, to whom, and how to disclose information pertaining to their sexual orientation or gender identity, and protect all persons from arbitrary or unwanted disclosure, or threat of disclosure of such information from others."

Telling you to put your pronouns in your email signature is contrary to the Yogyakarta Principles.‘

That seems a slam dunk answer.
durdlestairs · 08/08/2020 12:47

For women, having to state pronouns usually means Miss, Ms or Miss. A man's marital status remains unknown.

So I think no pronouns are necessary, unless you want to declare this.

TyroSaysMeow · 08/08/2020 12:46

Zoom calls: "My name is Tyro, and I won't be indicating my gender identity by specifying pronouns because this requirement is contrary to the Yogyakarta Principles."

Your thing run by a transman, a quiet conversation explaining the above will probably do the trick - you don't need to mention women's rights or stereotype threat or any of it because you've got the YP backing you up.

Where Empress quoted me upthread (ta, btw) I was quoting someone else who was quoting the YP and so I'm not sure precisely which bit of the YP that was. If anyone fancies digging, we could then all opt for "Pronouns: Yogyakarta Section 4 Part 17(iii)" or whatever it happens to be.

GennyCrabby · 08/08/2020 12:35

Sent before finished - I meant to add thank you again for all the contributions, in going to save this thread for future scenarios. There are times when I will be up for the fight but others when tact whilst maintaining my own boundaries will be better suited. I've had no drama from the Facebook group so far, and I feel sufficiently well equipped to book a session with the trans person now. Thanks all.

OP posts:
GennyCrabby · 08/08/2020 12:32

@Deltoids1 sorry you had that with your business account. I manage my workplaces twitter from my personal devices (because pandemic) and I try to just not like anything ever unless it's work in case I'm on the wrong account Blush I have slipped up, but luckily I don't think work minds too much about following a page about cat memes Grin

Again, I really agree with what you've said. It's a horrible thing to have to negotiate.

You may want to just go along with it, although you shouldn't at times, yes I do feel like that, that would be easiest and safest short term. It's too important to me to do that though.

OP posts:
excitedemmi · 08/08/2020 12:32

@EverardDigby

"My pronouns match my sex, which to be honest I feel uncomfortable about having to state at the beginning of a meeting."
I like this @EverardDigby
excitedemmi · 08/08/2020 12:31

I am just WAITING to be asked my pronouns! Can't wait to tell people that I have no gender identity (I just AM a woman). I have been crossing out "gender" on forms and replacing with "sex". Including one for a new job I'm starting! Husband thought it was a bit risky, but would they really not hire me for that?

EverardDigby · 08/08/2020 12:29

"My pronouns match my sex, which to be honest I feel uncomfortable about having to state at the beginning of a meeting."

RaraRachael · 08/08/2020 12:19

I haven't been asked for this but will decline if asked.

Binglebong · 08/08/2020 12:13

I think it is very difficult because of your professional position. You may want to just go along with it, although you shouldn't. My reply (easier position!) would be "I don't provide pronouns as highlighting my sex increases unconscious gender bias". Any objections can be met with "I'm sure no one would do it deliberately- it's unconscious!"

Deltoids1 · 08/08/2020 12:02

OP I do understand the balance you’re trying to reach. I didn’t mean to suggest you weren’t standing up to the compelled speech.
I guess my point is if we collectively politely opposite gender ideology in small ways, just like you are doing, if there are consequences the people doxxing etc look like loons.

I understand the nervousness. My business twitter account was targeted because I’d liked (from the wrong account) some of Sharron Davies’ tweet on the subject of TW in women’s sport. It’s scary but I always think of the consequences for our daughters if we don’t stand up.

TorysSuckRevokeArticle50 · 08/08/2020 11:59

I would just say my name is 'insert name here' and leave it at that if anyone pressed I'd say, please just use my name to communicate with or about me.

It's easy to do without ever using any pronouns at all.

  • Hi Jane, can you do xxxx
  • Everyone this is Jane, Jane's going to heading up this project.
  • Jane is the person who sits at the corner desk, dresses very smartly, long blonde hair, works in Johns team.
  • John can you make sure you loop Jane in on all communications about project work please
Floisme · 08/08/2020 11:48

Soz cross post - that was to beautiful

Floisme · 08/08/2020 11:47

Yes you are correct, and that is what makes this whole spectacle a self aggrandising piece of nonsense. However the op is seeking a non confrontational response and I understand why.

TorysSuckRevokeArticle50 · 08/08/2020 11:47

I really don't understand the need for this, how often do you actually in a work meeting/email type scenario say she/her? If someone is referring to you or asking for your contribution they use your name.

It's making a point of being woke unnecessarily.

beautifulmonument · 08/08/2020 11:41

Bold/quote fail there sorry

beautifulmonument · 08/08/2020 11:40

e.g. 'Do you mean you never use pronouns?' etc. I think you need an answer that is sufficient in itself.

e.g. 'I prefer to use the pronouns for my biological sex, which is...'

But nobody uses sex-based pronouns to talk about themselves. We say I, me, mine. I've never referred to myself as "she" or "her"

FromDespairToHere · 08/08/2020 11:26

My pronouns are I/me/my. What other people call me is down to them, I can't police others' language. Thank crikey I've never really come across this madness yet.

NearlyGranny · 08/08/2020 11:26

Just realised I've said basically what JKRisaqueen said further up the thread!

NearlyGranny · 08/08/2020 11:16

Why not say, "My name is Crabby, I don't feel entitled to compel anyone else's speech but I do promise not to take offence at whatever pronouns people use when they refer to me."

That is clear, modest and friendly with a hint of 'more reasonable than thou' which shouldn't attract attack, though you never know. It's what I'd do! You should be unassailable and you get to keep your principles.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/08/2020 11:06

The only reason the ‘need’ to know is that some people have now decided that are a he/she/they/xi... so that means that everyone had to play the game.

Stuff that for a game of soldiers.