Bernadine Evaristo on R4 - put gender n the blender

In Evaristo's own words: The scientific fact is that we are born into a biological sex, which is male, female, or intersex.

It's worth listening to the whole talk, 10 minutes. It's a pick'n'mix of tempting morsels for TRAs to pick out and share around.

I don't know who this woman is, but she can go to hell for saying that intersex is a third sex

If she claims to have studied this subject in depth, but thinks that 'intersex' is a third sex, its difficult to take anything she says seriously.

Yes she nailed the woke daughter quite well so I’m surprised at her tolerance for other mantras from that church.

I was confused that her concluding line was “lets put gender in the blender” I assume means to destroy it? Which is our starting point?!

binterested There are some nuanced discussions about race and privilege in the book. Amma’s daughter is v woke & goes to uni. Her views on hierarchies of oppression are challenged to some extent, when she becomes friends with a rich student of Egyptian heritage, who buys her way through academia and a white, northern poor girl.

I think she talks a load of cobblers about gender but this doesn't stop me enjoying her stories, her characters and her command of language. The same goes for Margaret Atwood

Thank you for listening to that so I don't have to.

There are some trans people in Girl, Woman, Other but they are all post-genital surgery or post-mastectomy. It may be that this is what she thinks all trans people are.

She's a sharp social critic, and there are some funny satirical passages, but this is a real blind spot IMO, probably based on the trans people she knows and the fact they are decent people who don't scream at her for accidental misgendering.

I’d like to see her tell Black Lives Matter they should move to All Lives Matter in order to stay relevant.

Not listened to the programme but recently read her book, which I thought was brilliant. The depiction of the non binary character was a bit of a caricature & overly perfect but it didn’t detract from the brilliance of the book overall, for me anyway. There are 2 central characters Amma & Dominique. Both black, lesbian feminists. Amma ultimately is the more successful & adapts to the changing times. Dominique has success but seems to be losing it near the end of the book, when there is a key conversation between the 2 women who I assume are late 50s at this point. Dominique is critical of the commodification of feminism, whereas Amma is just delighted feminism as a concept has become popular again. Dominique’s women only festival has been cancelled because she only allows women born to attend. Amma tells Dominique she needs to stay relevant....and there we have it. I think that’s what Bernardine is doing ‘staying relevant.’ It’s clear to me that she knows all the arguments back to front. Perhaps she doesn’t feel invested enough to take rad fem position, preferring populism to get some general feminist messages across.

Anyway the book is great for so many other reasons & the potted histories of each character (there are many) fascinating. I’d recommend it but mebbe I’ll swerve the R4 interview.

A wee google suggests there are at least a couple of novels and a TV series made on Conan Doyle/Houdini. I'd forgotten about the Cottingley fairies!

Right I need more coffee....

more stuff on Conan Doyle en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottingley_Fairies

Sorry cross post - that was to Scrimshaw

Thank you, I can see I'm going to have to read it Was there a book about Conan Doyle and Houdini? A novel of course!

I've not had enough coffee so I may be maligning her badly

Having also happened to catch this incoherent nonsense as I was making tea this morning, please don't worry, fatblackcatspaw. You're definitely not.

At the risk of a further tangent, Floisme, the 'Intelligence Trap' contains a fascinating account of the relationship between Harry Houdini and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle - the former an 'uneducated' showman and the latter a supposed doctor of science. But Conan Doyle was an avid believer in spiritualism (and a fantastic writer, too, of course):

www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/aug/10/houdini-and-conan-doyle-impossible-edinburgh-festival

I’m the opposite lamahaha. I have a degree in philosophy and I can do concepts and argument. I cannot do storytelling. At all. I do not have an imagination in me although I love fiction and I can write - just not stories.

The philosopher in me is what revolts at this ideology. It’s not even so much the risk to women and children - although that upsets me. It’s the willingness to deal in untruths. You say you are a woman - you are not. I can’t get beyond that.

I'm sure it works the other way too. I remember Hadley Freeman - who I think is a really good writer - talking about how she spent 20-odd years trying to write A Novel before concluding she just wasn't very good at fiction.

I'm a fiction writer and I find it incredibly difficult to put forward coherent arguments in a way that not only makes sense, but people can follow and nod along! I always know what I feel and think about a subject, but I'd never be a good debater or lawyer. I prefer (and am better at) storytelling!

Thank you Scrimpshaw I hadn't come across that - yes it looks interesting.

Just listened to it. It's incoherent and illogical.

All Hail Jane Clare Jones!

There might be a degree of biological conformity between females at birth but that's where it stops

Where what stops ?

The degree of biological conformity ? Agree that we just all have women’s bodies and men have men’s bodies but there are variations within each group.

The degree of conformity of personality ? Agree. That’s what feminism is all about. Having a female body does not mean you are constrained to a certain personality. Ditto men.

The relevance of sex? Stops at birth? No. Clearly not. Having a female body will impact you all your life.

Her thoughts are not very coherent. I think storytellers are necessarily good at manipulating words to creative a narrative. But the narrative doesn’t necessarily have any grounding in reality. You can make your characters do anything and here she’s making her words do her bidding. But you can’t make physical concepts in the world do anything you like. Using words to obfuscate doesn’t change the real world. We need Jane Clare Jones.

davidrobson.me/the-intelligence-trap/

I tuned in a bit of the way in by accident at first I was h oping she was doing an appeal on behalf of LGB Alliance but sadly not! She appeared to be saying interesting things about gender not being innate then she championed womxm and I think the abolition of sex? and I thought well thats £20 saved NOT going to buy her book. Her other argeument is that women have much more dividing them class race but apparently we can be happily connected to a bloke who claims to be a women.... I've not had enough coffee so I may be maligning her badly