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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New rugby thread

33 replies

DianasLasso · 07/08/2020 13:40

To discuss this:
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53667683

Last thread was pulled, presumably for "misgendering", so be careful with pronouns and so forth, because it's worth discussing.

There's now a wealth of scientific evidence (e.g. recent study by Karolinska institute) to show that transwomen retain enough advantage over natal women to have an unfair competitive edge, and in the case of rugby, to pose a significantly raised risk of injuring other players (best case scenario was about 20 to 30% increased risk according to the recent RFU report.

Yet the BBC keeps running these sob story articles, despite the science being quite clear that it is both unsafe and unfair towards women.

It was pointed out that these articles often feature very slightly built trans-women (one assumes to garner sympathy). But even so, people who've been through male puberty but then transition remain significantly stronger than women even if, compared to a men's rugby team, they look skinny and slight.

Someone on the last thread made this comment a propos of slimly built men.

Purely anecdotal, but my 2 youngest brothers are like rakes and only a tiny bit taller than me. Both still as strong as an Ox though, because of male puberty. I have no doubt they'd destroy me in a physical game of anything. Looking at them, you'd think they weigh about 8 stone wringing wet, but they're heavy.

My sport used to be climbing. I've known several husband-wife climbing partnerships where the woman was by far the better technical climber, but the man climbed harder just because he was stronger. One pair in particular stick in my memory, where, having watched the woman lead an overhanging E3 on limestone, I discovered she couldn't do a single pull-up of her own body weight. He, on the other hand, could do pull ups (from a finger edge, not a bar) until he gave up from sheer boredom. He was a very slightly built bloke, too, and about an inch shorter than her.

OP posts:
zanahoria · 07/08/2020 17:28

Gross measures of body strength suggest that women are approximately 50-60% as strong as men in the upper body, and 60-70% as strong in the lower body

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_human_physiology#:~:text=Gross%20measures%20of%20body%20strength,to%2063%25%20of%20male%20strength.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 07/08/2020 15:16

No comprehension

AlecTrevelyan006 · 07/08/2020 15:15

In recent years I have come to realise that the average person simply has comprehension of just how much stronger the average man is compared to the average woman.

cheeseismydownfall · 07/08/2020 14:53

genuinely, not genially!

cheeseismydownfall · 07/08/2020 14:52

My DS is 12, pre-pubescent, and about the same height as me. He is definitely not an athlete and, to be honest, during lockdown he has become decidedly unfit.

I was genially shocked a couple of weeks ago to discover just how much stronger than me he has become. Not a bit stronger - he is able to physically overpower me completely without any real effort at all. There is a lot spoken about how puberty confers physical strength advantages on males, but based on my experience I would question that actually it begins earlier than that.

Collidascope · 07/08/2020 14:15

I remember arm-wrestling once with male friends when we were in our teens. A couple of them were so short and scrawny-looking that I genuinely thought it would be a close thing. It wasn't. I'd fought with my older, bigger brothers growing up, and always been trounced, but I think this was the first time I realised how much stronger a male about my size was than a female.

DianasLasso · 07/08/2020 13:58

My DS used to play rugby - they segregate children's teams by sex from age 11 upwards.

I think there's also an argument for segregating teen rugby within each sex into weight bands - which is what New Zealand do. But if you took two sets of 15 year olds matched for height and weight, one boys, one girsl, the boys' group would be about 10 to 30% stronger. In fact, I doubt you'd find a single matched pair where the girl was stronger.

OP posts:
Deliriumoftheendless · 07/08/2020 13:47

I work with (mainly) boys in Y7,8 and 9. We have a policy of using restrain when necessary. We can’t hold the majority of the boys at this age as they are too big and strong (we are a mostly female workforce). And that is kids.

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