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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dictionary.com tries it with TERF and fails.

39 replies

TheHeartbeat · 06/08/2020 23:32

twitter.com/Dictionarycom/status/1291483438781018112

Check the replies.
They say a lot of TRA work the tech job that decide these kind of thing digitally. What you think?

This to me only confirms JK is right yet again.

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RadandMad · 08/08/2020 08:45

@queenofknives

Just watched Benjamin Boyce's video on this. I might have a slight crush on Benjamin Boyce. But anyway, I thought the video was good.
Yeah, me too. But he is a bit mannered and does think awfully well of himself, so that tempers it a bit for me.
queenofknives · 07/08/2020 18:28

Just watched Benjamin Boyce's video on this. I might have a slight crush on Benjamin Boyce. But anyway, I thought the video was good.

WeirdAndPissedOff · 07/08/2020 16:10

Further down the page, under "who uses TERF?":
"The phrase punch a TERF is often used on social media, particularly on Twitter. Trans advocates use the term to dismiss TERFs and their unsupportive statements and beliefs about trans people. However, the use of phrases like this has led to actual violence."

This should tell you all you need to know about the importance they place on the actual meanings of things. Since we all know that "punch xx" is really just a way to dismiss hateful statements, and any actual violence resulting from it is a bastardisation of the intent. Hmm

merrymouse · 07/08/2020 15:50

The fact that they have published this without appearing to understand what 'radical feminist' means or the way the term 'TERF' is generally applied really undermines all their other definitions.

According to wikipedia Dictionary.com uses material from dictionaries like the Collin's English dictionary, but it doesn't seem any more reliable than urban dictionary.

WeeBisom · 07/08/2020 15:23

“TERF is used to describe cisgender women who self-identify as feminist but who are opposed to including transgender women in spaces they reserve for people who were assigned female at birth. This is because they believe trans women are men.”

But by this logic trans women aren’t “assigned female at birth” - they are “assigned male at birth”. Why would someone assigned male at birth expect to have access to assigned female at birth spaces? This definition, taken literally, says “terfs are evil women who don’t let trans women into spaces that they don’t belong in.”

merrymouse · 07/08/2020 13:32

Reading the dictionary.com definition again, 'TERF is used to describe cisgender women who self-identify as feminist', I suspect that the author has not heard of radical feminism.

merrymouse · 07/08/2020 13:06

Those who use it to describe others note that it’s descriptive in nature, and not insulting.

Those that disagree with this note that it is applied widely, without regard to whether the subject being described has even heard of radical feminism.

IHeartSusanDey · 07/08/2020 12:27

@Tanith

Reminds me of Nazi propaganda posters: "Beware the Jew".

I'm trying to remember the last time TRAs actually promoted the rights of trans people rather than attacking women.

Just another way in which they are indistinguishable from MRAs.
DreadPirateLuna · 07/08/2020 12:18

TERF is used to describe cisgender women

Mostly used against women, but sometimes against men and even transpeople who don't subscribe to TRA ideology.

who self-identify as feminist but who are opposed to including transgender women in spaces they reserve for people who were assigned female at birth.

Replace the nonsensical "people who were assigned female at birth" with "female people" (or even just "women") and you're almost there.

This is because they believe trans women are men

As do the vast majority of humanity, especially if you're including "pre-op" transwomen.

and since men cannot coexist with their feminist ideologies

What does this even mean??? Of course men exist! Some of them are even supportive of "feminist ideologies". Is this that old "feminist = man hater" bollocks all over again?

they exclude them from their beliefs and support.

Is "them" men in general, or transwomen? My English teacher would have so many red marks on this, her pen would have run out.

In fact, they often believe they should be denied rights

Which rights? Be bloody specific!

and sometimes advocate for harm against trans people

Add "sometimes" and be vague about "harm", and this becomes unfalsifiable.

BaronessWrongCrowd · 07/08/2020 10:26

Well they can Foxtrot Oscar. Won't be using them again for reference.

SophocIestheFox · 07/08/2020 10:01

humpty Grin

Of course your mistake there is that you’ve followed a logical line of reasoning, and any fule no, that’s not how we do things these days Wink

Sexnotgender · 07/08/2020 09:50

In fact, they often believe they should be denied rights and sometimes advocate for harm against trans people

Appalling. What shit is this? Classic DARVO.

Tanith · 07/08/2020 09:17

Reminds me of Nazi propaganda posters: "Beware the Jew".

I'm trying to remember the last time TRAs actually promoted the rights of trans people rather than attacking women.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/08/2020 08:59

But, well-known feminists who have been labeled TERF on the internet have come out to call the term a slur, because it is associated with violence and hatred.

They've got that arse about face or at least badly ambiguous... it's a term heavily associated with violence and hatred towards feminists (or anyone who slightly deviates from genderist dogma tbh) but they're implying that it's in the other direction.Hmm

SunsetBeetch · 07/08/2020 08:55

Benjamin Boyce has made a video on this:

ItsLateHumpty · 07/08/2020 08:29

SophocIestheFox I also read that online definition of TERF;

TERF - cisgender women who self-identify as feminist

Then thought I’d look up

“cisgender” and behold!

adjective
Also cis·gen·dered . noting or relating to a person whose gender identity corresponds with that person’s sex assigned at birth.
noun
a person who is cisgender.

So Hmm what is

“gender identity”

noun
a person's inner sense of being male or female, usually developed during early childhood as a result of parental rearing practices and societal influences and strengthened during puberty by hormonal changes.

This makes a TERF a female who agrees with, and adheres to feminine stereotypes, and only IDs as a feminist.

So, no one on FWR then?

Our monitors will be pleased Grin

RadandMad · 07/08/2020 08:14

Just when I thought things couldn't get more insane.

DickKerrLadies · 07/08/2020 08:05

TRA accusations are admissions.

DianasLasso · 07/08/2020 07:19

I liked the reply which pointed out that dictionary.com's opening play on words ("Beware the witch" being the slogan which had preceded the murder of thousands of women across Europe in a misogynistic purge) plus the line through the female symbol combined in such an obvious expression of virulent misogyny that "they're saying the quiet bit loud."

Collidascope · 07/08/2020 06:43

since men cannot coexist with their feminist ideologies, they exclude them from their beliefs and support.

What!? What does this even mean? If anything, our feminist ideology cannot exist without men. Feminism came about because men oppressed women...
And what does excluding someone from your beliefs mean?
Just the most horrific mangling of language, as usual.

Because it is associated with violence and hatred
Nice, vague use of "associated" there. I'm fairly sure I know which way the violence and hatred is being directed.

And again, of course, trans men are forgotten. They benefit from feminism, and yet somehow we still get called trans-exclusionary. Funny, that.

SophocIestheFox · 07/08/2020 06:25

This is the “definition” (self identified) in all its badly written glory, punctuation and grammar as it appears on Dictionary.com:

TERF is used to describe cisgender women who self-identify as feminist but who are opposed to including transgender women in spaces they reserve for people who were assigned female at birth. This is because they believe trans women are men and since men cannot coexist with their feminist ideologies, they exclude them from their beliefs and support. In fact, they often believe they should be denied rights and sometimes advocate for harm against trans people

In use online since at least 2008, TERF has different connotations, depending on who is using it. Those who use it to describe others note that it’s descriptive in nature, and not insulting.

But, well-known feminists who have been labeled TERF on the internet have come out to call the term a slur, because it is associated with violence and hatred.

Never mind if I’m offended by the content or not, I’m offended on behalf of dictionaries and the English language that anyone is attempting to pass this off as a coherent definition of anything other than “this is what happens when women say no to misogynists”.

Collidascope · 07/08/2020 06:18

Meh. I didn't read the article but...

Dictionary.com tries it with TERF and fails.
AsTreesWalking · 07/08/2020 06:15

Tchah!
See the previous definition of 't-girl' www.dictionary.com/e/gender-sexuality/t-girl/
I've never heard of that, but be careful, t*rfs! it may offend

HermioneMakepeace · 07/08/2020 05:37

@SetYourselfOnFire

Unbelievable. Telling lies doesn't refashion reality. You'll still never be a woman.
My new favourite phrase from that Twitter thread:

If you don’t like it, complain to God.

Indeed.

HermioneMakepeace · 07/08/2020 05:36

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