Surrogacy for a family member - a moral dilemma

Whose egg and sperm will it be?
Your brothers sperm
And the egg is his wife's, yours or someone else?

You say they live in a country for his work that they may love from. Is that a different country from you?

Over and above many of the other thoughtful posts I wonder how would it feel to give birth and then that niece/nephew be immediately removed to another country? It would be hard enough handing a baby over, but to do it for a family member and then have all that distance.

It sounds like a bad idea to me. I really feel for your brother. It does sound like moving somewhere they intend to stay long term and adopting may be their beat option. Fraught as that is with its own challenges.

I'm against commercial surrogacy. I can see a slightly clearer argument in some cases in families but I think in your case this is not something you should burden yourself with as it will come at a huge cost to you.

This situation in no way mirrors yours OP - the surrogate mother had sold twins to a Chinese couple and she was doing it for her sister who has always been her 'rock' before - but I share as a recent story and as an example of how altruistic surrogacy can change families, even those who's bonds were previously thought of as invincible.

Surrogacy Contracts - YouTube video - US www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3986438-surrogacy-contracts-youtube-video-us

Also google Mumsnet Ukraine Surrogacy for useful insight to share with your brother, if needed, on foreign commercial surrogacy if you want resources to share with your brother. I posted recent news stories of human trafficking/illegal surrogacy being uncovered in Russia and Thailand earlier today.

It’s interesting too that they don’t want to adopt because of taking the child away from their birth country, but they’re happy for someone to go through pregnancy and then give birth to their child for them.

I feel for them, I really do. It must be absolutely awful feeling so desperate for a child.

This is an impossible situation isn’t it. I think whatever you decide to do op, it won’t feel right.

I think you should perhaps delve deeper into their infertility journey? If theres a problem with the eggs you could potentially be carrying a child that will have a disability or end up having a miscarriage yourself.

Surrogacy has always made me feel a bit uncomfortable though.

They can’t adopt as they currently live abroad for my brother’s work, so moving back would mean removing their adopted child from their country of birth and distancing the baby from their birth family. They have therefore decided to go down the surrogacy route.

If they are adopting, then they will be removing the child from the birth family?

I have posted on many a surrogacy thread and am clearly anti all types of surrogacy, inc altruistic.

There are so many things that could go wrong, before, during and after. Anyone even considering this should read a lot about implantation, the anti-rejection drugs, multiple pregnancies (twins etc), selective abortion, etc. That's aside from all the moral issues of giving up your baby (genetics aside you would be the legal mother) and the legal side (contracts are not enforceable in the U.K. but would you agree an MOU on expenses, amino/tests, abortion, what if the babies was downs etc) and the parental order process.

There are also issues in families with altruistic surrogacy, would your SIL be jealous, would she and/or your brother want you to be distant from your niece/nephew fenders you had too close a relationship as they grow, would your own children understand that the baby isn't yours, how would it feel if you witness them disciplining the child in ways you don't or wouldn't...it could change your family dynamic entirely forever.

Two stories I note here. One surrogate mother to her brother and SIL found her SIL become super religious and almost indoctrinating the child years after the birth. Another was a surrogate mother was pregnant when her best friend split from his boyfriend and she was having to keep the baby whilst he recovered from the financial and mental stress of the break up.

There are lots of threads here and stories elsewhere to read for personal stories, but personally I hope you decide not to offer your body for this and they decide as a couple not to exploit another woman who lives in poverty, particularly from overseas, particularly during a time of a global pandemic.

I could be a surrogate for my sister because I know that I would be able to have a relationship with the child but not for my brother as he would not really allow it plus I know in his heart he wants to live in America.

I think you are thinking of doing something that is very generous and kind but you really need to think about how you are going to feel afterwards. I would have found it very hard to carry and birth my baby and then have to willing hand him over

MadamBatty Don't apologise, you gave me a little chuckle! We've all been there.

@Veganfortheanimals what OP actually said:

They can’t adopt as they currently live abroad for my brother’s work, so moving back would mean removing their adopted child from their country of birth and distancing the baby from their birth family.

So she’s saying that a removal would be hypothetical. They haven’t adopted.

Secret diary of a surrogate mother

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/apr/27/secret-diary-of-a-surrogate-mother?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

I don’t understand
You said he had adopted a baby

ok everybody who pulled me up on the turkey baster. I wasn’t thinking, i was having a brain fog menopausal moment. I’m sorry, I don’t want this thread to be derailed.

I’m sorry again, I’m stupid, I’m sorry.

Now back to the thread

I don’t understand why you think you have to have any involvement beyond advising your brother to do plenty of research as you are aware of women being exploited by surrogacy arrangements. You could add that it’s not always in the child’s best interests either and have they considered how things can go wrong? I’d be the “devil’s advocate” in an effort —pretence— to be helpful and supportive.

There was a story in the Guardian that was very similar, surrogate did it for her brother. I'll try to find it

They feel it wouldn’t be right to adopt a child in the country they live in as my brother could be moved away for work again (back home or elsewhere) and that would entail removing the child from their home country.

OK, so they are not adoptive parents already. This at least suggests they have some clue about the needs of an adoptive child. It seems like it would be better for them to change careers and move somewhere they CAN adopt and stay permanently.

If they have had 10 years of failed IVF then TBH I doubt the success rate with their stored embryos is going to be much better, is it? Unless they are completely certain it is a uterine issue?

So then there's a risk of miscarriage for the surrogate i.e. you.

I know they aren't selling it to you, but if you are selling it to yourself as "I get to still see the baby" and think it's too much of a wrench to not see the baby, then however a non-related surrogate is thinking about it, she is going to still have that wrench, whether or not she thinks she will.

What advice would you give to another woman with doubts, who you suspected was sacrificing herself to spare another woman?

Another poster said that it's not exploitation if it's love.
I disagree so much with that.

I would never allow my children to risk their lives to furnish my desires. They are the people I love most in the world. If they wanted to undertake risk on my behalf, which I would understand as a sentiment, my love for them would prevent me from being a beneficiary, prevent me from allowing such a transaction. I would never benefit from their pain, risk or loss.

Could YOU ask another person to be used, and risk their life and health for you, if you really loved them?
Would you put another woman through that if you truly cared about them?
If a woman died or was permanently damaged in the course of such an arrangement, would you be ok with that?

How much risk should we expect others to endure on our behalf?
What degree of your risk or pain would your brother accept for his own benefit?

Echoing what others have said. Don't put yourself and your family at risk.

Pregnancies are higher risk with donor eggs.

I think the emotional impact of failed ivf or miscarriage or anything that doesn’t go well will be enormously complicated if you are their surrogate.

If they live abroad how does that impact the legal process?

Can UK residents be altruistic surrogates for non- UK residents? Does it impact on accessing NHS services?

It’s a lot to consider.

You are asking on this board because you have doubts. That alone is reason not to.