Surrogacy for a family member - a moral dilemma

I know someone who did it for their sister. It has worked out well.
However you have 2 children, what would you do if you died or became disabled in the process.
What if the child is disabled. Would they still want it.
You need to work out every avenue.

I’m sure I read a link on here one about someone who was a surrogate for friends and she was left doubly incontinent and they dumped her.

The whole thing sounds bonkers. I don't think you are seriously considering this.

It's very odd. How do the legalities of that work? Surely it must be treated as adoption albeit within the family. What if they didn't pass muster? Is a child even allowed to stay in a family where there was a plan to give them to other family members?

And fro the point of view of conceiving and going through pregnancy I can't imagine it at all. Having gone through planned pregnancy and birth of much wanted babies, to do the same thing again but not want it must be very strange and the existing children must be very confused and wonder why the parents don't want to keep this one.

Bishopgiggles, you asked about the situation I knew of. Yes, the sister and her husband both agreed to gift the baby to her sister. They all lived close to each other, and there was no attempt to hide the fact the bio parents were who they were.

It’s bizarre. I do wonder if the pregnancy was unplanned and this was seen as a solution during the pregnancy. I don’t think the surrogacy was planned.

All surrogacy is wrong. I find it odd that the rights of the child are paramount at other times e.g. in custody disputes, but as an infant surely your main right and only wish is to have your mother. It’s just so so sad.
Please think of your children first, childbirth is a dangerous business. I’m a bit cross that it’s you and your families risk vs your brother changing his job or lifestyle or rethinking the oddness that is not wanting to take the child away from the country but ok with taking from the mother!

Christ no. You would only do this if you were desperate to do so not because you are desperate for someone else not to do so. It would be bonkers as you describe. I have seen altruistic surrogacy work well but this would never be the starting point if such an outcome.

I would do this for my sisters and they would do it for me. Or would have done when we were of an age to be useful. That would have been out of love. But it sounds more as you would do it to prevent a commercial surrogacy situation which is a very different motivation and not necessarily a good one in this situation.

I would start by asking yourself why you would grow and birth a tiny human and subject it to the trauma of removal from its mother?

This. Also, what if you died or had life-changing birth injuries?

(I would totally give my sister a kidney, btw, but I wouldn’t even consider giving her a baby - my children might well be worried about me having the harvesting op, but they aren’t going to feel bereaved about mum’s kidney and it’s not got nearly the potential to fuck with my family’s emotions for years to come. Plus my kidney isn’t going to come to me in a couple of decades time and ask why I gave it away!)

So much thoughtful advice already on this thread.

I absolutely agree that setting out to create a baby that will be taken from it’s mother, from the only person it knows, is always wrong. Doesn’t matter how altruistic they surrogate, doesn’t matter how lovely the intended parents, it’s wrong because it’s wrong for the baby. Taking a baby from it’s mother should only ever happen when it’s necessary to ensure the safety and well baby of the baby, and even then there needs to be a regulated and overseen procedure.

One thing that the perhaps hasn’t already been mentioned is the well-being of your own children and your relationship with your partner. Pregnancy can be brutal and many loving relationships can become strained, and that’s when the unborn baby is related to the mother and father and desperately wanted by both. Don’t underestimate the damage that another pregnancy could do to your family situation, your health and your career, all to make a baby that you will give away.
It has the potential to proper fuck with your own kids heads too - I’ve heard that some children have to process it similarly to if their sibling was lost via still birth or cot death. They bond with the baby inside their mum, feel the kicks when having cuddles etc.

It will be so incredibly difficult to hand over a newborn baby, grown in your womb for 9 months. You have the hormones bonding you and helping you love that baby before you even see it.
The baby is bonded to you. It knows your heartbeat and your smell.
It will most likely be so so traumatic for you and the child. You will see this child grow up and may find that adds to the difficulty.

Not only that bit you put yourself at risk of birth trauma or injury for a child that is not yours

If they are moving to the UK could they not try to adopt here?

It is sad and unfair that some people can’t have children, particularly those who deeply want to, but that is maybe something we (society, not you or your family specifically) should address. We should be more accepting of childless adults and not treat them as a tragedy or failure, and we should be more okay with not always getting what we want out of life.

THIS

I read somewhere, I think on here, someone saying that with infertility and surrogacy, why is the "solution" always a woman putting herself at risk, rather than the couple making peace with the fact they can't get what they want.

(That sounds insensitive to People struggling with infertility, but it's not intended that way)

It was a bit of a lightbulb moment for me.

In that Guardian diary, the SIL already has two kids from a previous marriage!

In the case SnuggyBuggy posted the SiL became very jealous - I think this is a theme, perhaps a bit like women getting jealous of the nanny when the child wants to go to the nanny rather than it's mother.
Also the grandmother was furious when she found out and worked hard to keep the family together and prevent a fall out. I think altruistic surrogacy within families and close friends is fraught with risk and difficulty.

@SnuggyBuggy this was a really heartbreaking entry, "Week 22
As we are leaving for school, my daughter turns to me and says: "You wouldn't give me away, would you?" I have been waiting for this question. I tell her "no", but it underlines the fact that, while the decision to offer myself as a surrogate was mine, the effect is on the whole family."

@DeRigueurMortis I too have changed my mind about family surrogacy - especially because it's not just an arrangement between siblings- there's an in-law as well, who has different loyalties. And the baby as a gift is wrong. Babies are humans who shouldn't lose their birth parents unless there are real reasons (death, severe disability, abuse, inability to parent). Then the adoptive parents are helping the child by being willing to parent, not the other way around.

Unless you are giving them your eggs (which makes you the child's mom and that is unbelievably unfair to the baby, to you, your children, you husband...and not genetically smart if matched with you brother's sperm), there's still the issue of the egg donor which is also exploitative of a woman. If it's your SIL's egg, imagine if the first round didn't take? Does she want you to keep trying? How is that ok on your body? I'm so sorry. I'm sure they are devastated but this isn't something you can really fix.

there was no IVF or donated egg or sperm - she had a baby with her husband in order to give it to her sister

Does anyone else find this idea absolutely incredible? How can anyone do this? How could anyone "accept" a baby in this way? I feel quite sick at the idea of me and dh purposely having a child and just handing it over to someone.
Did the donating couple have other kids?

I used to think altruistic surrogacy (for a family member or very close friend) to be an act of kindness.

Very similar in fact to a kidney donation in the instance that both carry risks.

Though I've always been opposed to commercial surrogacy.

Now I'm not so sure.

For a start we're not talking about an agreement between 2 consenting adults who are aware of the risks in the case of a transplant.

Re: surrogacy there is a child in the middle of this who has no say whatsoever if things go wrong.

Equally, there are often other children in the picture (the surrogates) who I can't believe don't experience some sort of confusion over mummy being pregnant with a child that is not related to them or indeed is related to them but will never be their sibling. They also have a lot of skin in the game if anything goes wrong - even relatively common but debilitating issues like PND or even PTSD.

I also now feel that altruistic surrogacy is rolled out as a reason why it's a good thing and in that sense it becomes a gateway for accepting commercial surrogacy as the same.

I know it's something I couldn't do even for someone close to me.

A child is never a right nor is it a gift to be given.

I'm obviously very sympathetic to people suffering with infertility (and have had several miscarriages before finally successfully conceiving my DS) but I feel more and more strongly that surrogacy isn't the answer.

In a way OP the fact you are considering this demonstrates your female socialisation - to help, be kind and put not only your DB/SIL in front of your own best interests (and your children's) but also potentially an unknown woman.

You say adoption is problematic because they live abroad - well perhaps that's a measure of how much they are prepared to invest in having a baby in the sense they could return to the U.K. or make a decision to make their current location a permanent home. Or in truth is that they want a baby that's biologically theirs?

There's so much that could go wrong as others have posted even if the pregnancy and birth go well.

I think you are potentially considering a beautiful hypothetical scenario where you "gift" DB and SIL with a child and everything is awsome and you are a "special" auntie.

But what if they divorce and it's not amicable and you never see this child again? What if you disagree with their parenting style?

What if you miscarry? How many "tries" are you prepared to go through?

From having IVF you know the commitment in terms of medical treatment/appointments - time you'll spend away from your family that might be magnified by multiple attempts.

What if there is pressure on you to provide a sibling and a rift develops because you "selfishly" won't do it again?

So very many ways for this not to bring joy to a family but heartache.

I'm genuinely sorry for your DB and SIL but I honestly don't believe you acting as a surrogate is the answer.

Surrogacy is always wrong, IMO. It treats pregnancy, birth and the baby as commodities and there is always an element of risk, exploitation and emotional fallout.

DH's family had long-standing friends who he more or less grew up with. One sister had a baby for the other sister. There were no secrets - everyone knew and the 'donated' son grew up knowing who his bio parents were (there was no IVF or donated egg or sperm - she had a baby with her husband in order to give it to her sister). However, all the relationships in that family became totally poisoned. I have since read of other cases which have ended very badly.

'wants' not 'what's'

'After all while you are doing this for your brother, your SIL may not be the person you know on the surface'

And this is worth expanding, it's not just your SIL you may not know well enough, your brother may not be the person you thought you knew. I thought I was close to my brother but found I didn't know him at all and if I'd done something like be a surrogate I'd have been devastated when his true character came to light.

No one what's to think of the possibility our close relatives may do something wrong but every criminal is someone's relative and often it comes as a complete shock to those closest to them.

No. It's not about the exploitation of the mother, it's about the exploitation of the child. Surrogacy entails deliberate, planned separation of a newborn from its mother. That is never in a newborn's best interests except in exceptional cirumstances where there is a clear risk from the birth mother.

It's bizarre that they won't take an adopted child away from its home country but will take it away from its mother.

And apart from that, there is too much potential for harm to you (how would you feel if the pregnancy left you, for example, permanently incontinent?) and to family relationships.

If they are serious about being parents I think they need to commit to what's necessary (from their pov) to adopt -- relocate permanently to the UK or commit to staying in the country they are in.

I'm absolutely for altruistic surrogacy where it is given totally willingly. A close friend offered to be a surrogate for me while I was doing ivf. I love her for that but wanted to carry my own child. I never asked, and she thought it over with her husband for months before offering after reading a lot about the pros and cons being a surrogate. That is the only way surrogacy should be offered in my opinion.

In your case it doesn't sound like something you really want to do though. So if I'm right then don't do it. Explore your feelings without the "noise" of wanting to prevent surrogacy by someone else. It shouldn't feature in your decision.