One in 10 women and other people with a uterus of reproductive age have the disease.

A lot of people dont conform to gender stereotypes, but really we know which clothes are male and which clothes are female. We know which names are male and which are female.

So do you think wearing mens clothes is "living is a man" then? And how do we know which clothes are male? I mean i live in jeans and t-shirts with slogans/movie stuff on, most of those t-shirts are labelled as being for men, doesn't mean I'm "living as a man" though, does it? Or would you read them as being mens t-shirts just because they have stereotypical "boy stuff" on them?

Oh because mumsnetters and feminists are the big nasty bullies here, not that the vast vast majority of Homophobic, transphobic and misogynistic abuse and violence comes from men, who still get to waltz around the world calling themselves men, not being referred to in dehumanising language, saying twaw (except for relationship purposes) and presumably not hand wringing over pronouns.

This is the biggest unfairness of it all.

But I suspect Bobbie is using Topsy Turvy World definitions.

Yes. I think you're certainly right there.

While the non binary bollocks is ridiculous, especially as this is a medical issue affecting the female sex - and medicine doesn't care about your gender feelz - I can live with this.

And that's gender ideology

Suggest you read up a bit more about gender ideology and the harm it causes women and children. Because it seems to me you don't really have a clue on what it actually means.

I've yet to come across a gender-critical mumsnetter who insists on male pronouns for women who look a bit masculine.

Male pronouns for people who are observably male, yes, plenty of us are down with that.

It's not actually mumsnetters who go around calling masculine women men; quite the opposite in fact. The idea that masculine women are actually men is sexist. As is the idea that feminine men are women.

But I suspect Bobbie is using Topsy Turvy World definitions.

@DialSquare

Just read this thread, ir a number of others on here, which show the hundreds of mumsnetter who will refuse to use the pronoun chosen by the person in question because they werent born that way.
If they pass as the gender the choose, the people on herr have called it "being tricked". If they dont pass, then they wont use the chosen pronoun. And that's gender ideology?

We're not a hive mind @bobbiedrapper. Some people may extend the courtesy. I don't. But no, I won't be referring to biological men with female pronouns and vice versa. Why would I? It's not what they are. I would have done once out of kindness. But Ive had enough of the blatent disregard of women's rights and safety, the attempted erasure of words that describe women, and the deliberate attempts to throw child safeguarding out the window. It's over. I won't be giving an inch on any of this and I don't care if it brings out the hurty feelings.

So you dont ever say him or her when you see someone for the first time? Because you cant possibly figure out if someone is a him or a her unless you see their genitals?
I wonder how you get through life never using a pronoun until yoice double checked what someone has in their pants.

The fact that you can often guess someone's sex from their appearance, voice, gait etc doesn't explain what it means to "live like a man or woman". Does it mean changing your appearance, voice, etc to the point where strangers will either be taken in and believe you are of the opposite sex, or more likely, realize that is your aim, and treat you as such out of courtesy?

"But then they need to fight every time they come up against a mumsnet who refuses to say "her" if the person looks a bit masculine.*"
*
This is the total opposite of GC views. There are many gender non conforming women on here because we all think that Gender is a social construct. Its based on stereotypes and restrictive. Your quote above fits the Gender Ideology perspective not ours.

@KarenKarendson

So the ones who manage to "trick" you, do you change what you call them when you find out?

We've got another mumsnetter above you saying that I'm wrong and mumsnetters do extend that courtesy to transpeople by calling them their preferred pronouns, despite the majority of posters on this, and other threads, saying they will not be told which pronoun to use. They'll use the one they want.

[quote BobbieDraper]@JellySlice

Obesity is something you chose. Whether you like it or not, you chose to overeat or not do enough exercise.

Transpeople did not choose the sex they were born. They did not choose to have gender dysphoria. They have taken the necessary steps so that when they look on the mirror, they see themselves presented in the gender they did choose.

If you dont want to see obesity when you look in the mirror, then lose weight. Dont expect people to call you thin if you dont try to change.

Most trans people take steps to change and fit the pronoun they prefer.[/quote]
Actually that is incorrect - the study of the microbiome is finding many situations where the population of gut bacteria plays a large part in causing obesity and they are making progress in treatments.
You clearly missed the memo from Stonewall re the trans umbrella and you have made rather a sweeping (and wrong) assumption about Mnetters not respecting Buck’s pronouns - courtesy has been extended on both sides.

Because you cant possibly figure out if someone is a him or a her unless you see their genitals?

Lol. I don't need to see someone's genitals to know what biological sex they are. The majority of trans people do not pass.

@Falleninwiththewrongcrowd

So you dont ever say him or her when you see someone for the first time? Because you cant possibly figure out if someone is a him or a her unless you see their genitals?
I wonder how you get through life never using a pronoun until yoice double checked what someone has in their pants.

Obesity. No one is born obese and then has to fight to get away from it. Also, once you lose weight, people dont continue to call you obese.

People are born now sex or the other (in most cases). Some are happy with this. Some are not. Those who are not, can transition and change their descriptors. But then they need to fight every time they come up against a mumsnet who refuses to say "her" if the person looks a bit masculine. Obese who lose weight dont need to do that, do they?

BobbieDraper

It's really pretty obvious in our society what living like a man or women is.

Not at all obvious to me, I'm afraid. Care to explain it to me?

I think a good analogy is whether non-Muslims are expected to use 'peace be upon him' after every utterance of 'Allah'.

Some of those who identify as trans do have gender dysphoria and some transition. Just as some people who are obese attained that state of being by "choosing" to overeat.

Many don't.

[quote BobbieDraper]@JellySlice

Obesity is something you chose. Whether you like it or not, you chose to overeat or not do enough exercise.

Transpeople did not choose the sex they were born. They did not choose to have gender dysphoria. They have taken the necessary steps so that when they look on the mirror, they see themselves presented in the gender they did choose.

If you dont want to see obesity when you look in the mirror, then lose weight. Dont expect people to call you thin if you dont try to change.

Most trans people take steps to change and fit the pronoun they prefer.[/quote]
I fear you know as little about the mechanism underlying obesity as you do about people who identify as trans.

It is now considered exclusionary and transphobic to posit that people who identify as trans have gender dysphoria as a matter of fact. It is also considered exclusionary and transphobic to to assume that people who identify as trans transition in any way whatsoever, including pronouns or first names.

Given this unclear terminology, its usage results in a health campaign addressing women and a group that may be understood to be men by a large number of women. This is not as effective as a campaign that addresses women only.

Maybe Bobbie should educate themselves.

Yep. Rather than seeking to educate women on something they clearly know little about. I think the majority of women on this board know what the score is now. Which is why we're saying no.

No I think there is disagreement on pronouns.

Pronouns are about preferred gender identity. This thread is about biological reality from which there is no opting out. They are two different things.