William Shatner

That I can't be cis and be a proper woman

Again, where did anyone say this? It must be nice to invent scenarios in your head. I'm lying on a beach in a tropical island sipping cocktails right now. Oh wait, I'm not.

I'm still waiting for your answer. How is you being a cis woman different to my experiences as a woman?

When you self-describe as cis you're reifying the cis/trans binary.

You're whacking an artificial distinction between women like me, who've struggled for years because of our inability to meet the demands of the feminine social construct, and women like you, who can play along with your own subordination without feeling you're sacrificing all integrity and sense of self.

Every time you call yourself cis you remind me that I am not this thing that society says women are.

Net result: increasing dysphoria among the class formerly known as women.

And for what?

"It wasn't that long ago that we didn't use words like straight, bisexual, non-binary, asexual etc but we do now. I guess that we are all a brainwashed cult!"

I'm in my fifties. The words "straight " and "bisexual " have been going as long as I have been old enough to be aware of them. Which is about 37 years

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Spinachfinger

All I've asked is that people accept the fact that the word cis doesn't make me.want ot throw up into a toilet. If it makes you want to hurl, then fair enough.[/quote]
It's not all you've said though is it? You've been actively dismissive of other peoples feeling and come on here throwing your weight around like the world owes you something. You were rude to many posters and took it upon yourself to get offended at everyone. It's like you think that you can't be a trans ally without pandering to modern day bullshit. Most people were trans allies before all this new wave bullshit came to the fore. Forgive us for not jumping on the Newspeak trend that does women (and the trans community) more harm than good. You sound utterly petulant.

I've said all along that I don't care if people don't want to be labelled as cis. You want me to accept that, I do. I ACCEPT that you are not cis. But ever since I've said that I am cis, I've had plenty of abuse and people trying to tell me that cis is null and void. That it means I have zero self respect. That I can't be cis and be a proper woman. That I am brainwashed. All because I have a different opinion to you. It is you @Spinachfinger who is insisting that cis belongs in academia. It is YOU who is trying to force your belief system onto me. It is YOU who is not being accepting. But if you don't want to accept me that's fine.

[quote Littlemeadow123]@DialSquare

A lot of people on mumsnet are. That's a well known fact. It doesn't have a reputation of being transphobic net for nothing. Touchy, much?[/quote]
And the reputation comes from people who think humans can change sex so I take what they say with a pinch of salt. Please report any actual transphobia you see and Mumsnet will remove the post Not touchy at all. I'm not the one crying about being abused. I just pointed out that you seem to be able to give it but not take it.

And you still havent answered how you being a 'cis' woman is different to my experiences as a woman. You asked yesterday do I know what it's like to feel like a cis woman..... so I'll wait for your reply.

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Spinachfinger

It wasn't that long ago that we didn't use words like straight, bisexual, non-binary, asexual etc but we do now. I guess that we are all a brainwashed cult!

You are showing your true colours now darling. [/quote]
Thing is, words like 'straight', 'bisexual', 'asexual' don't ask us to throw biological sex out of the window and vulnerable women under the bus.

@Spinachfinger

All I've asked is that people accept the fact that the word cis doesn't make me.want ot throw up into a toilet. If it makes you want to hurl, then fair enough.

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Spinachfinger

It wasn't that long ago that we didn't use words like straight, bisexual, non-binary, asexual etc but we do now. I guess that we are all a brainwashed cult!

You are showing your true colours now darling. [/quote]
A moot point, because these descriptor have actual meaning to them and aren't based on a made up belief system.

If my true colours are that of a logical person who has no time for pandering to tantrums of grown adults, then fair enough, I'll take it.

[quote Littlemeadow123]@DickKerrLadies

My friend told me.a few years ago that he wanted to live as a woman and be referred to as a woman. So it would be unkind and offensive if I carried on calling him a man, if I addressed him by his male name instead of the female one he chose etc etc.[/quote]
How does someone 'live as a woman', though? And, more specifically, how does a man live as a woman? Obviously anyone can change their name.

I can understand wanting to lie to a friend to protect their feelings, however, so I can see why you would want to call specific trans people 'women'.

@DialSquare

A lot of people on mumsnet are. That's a well known fact. It doesn't have a reputation of being transphobic net for nothing. Touchy, much?

@Littlemeadow123 you've made demands on the majority of users here. I bet irl you make demands on people who don't believe your ideology. You say you are sensitive to peoples feelings, but I bet you draw the line when they don't reflect your own. In other words, a hypocrite.

@Spinachfinger

It wasn't that long ago that we didn't use words like straight, bisexual, non-binary, asexual etc but we do now. I guess that we are all a brainwashed cult!

You are showing your true colours now darling.

[quote Littlemeadow123]@BaronessWrongCrowd

I'm not saying that anyone else should apply that label to themselves. Just don't give me abuse when I want to apply it to myself. Already on this thread I have been called brain washed, that I have zero self-respect, that I am a weak example of a woman.[/quote]
And you've called us transphobes.

@DickKerrLadies

My friend told me.a few years ago that he wanted to live as a woman and be referred to as a woman. So it would be unkind and offensive if I carried on calling him a man, if I addressed him by his male name instead of the female one he chose etc etc.

@BaronessWrongCrowd

I'm not saying that anyone else should apply that label to themselves. Just don't give me abuse when I want to apply it to myself. Already on this thread I have been called brain washed, that I have zero self-respect, that I am a weak example of a woman.

Can't beat his version of Common People

Why is it offensive to call them men? Surely it is more accepting of them to accept them as the sex they are rather than pretend they are something they are not?

Personally, that doesn't sound very accepting.

@Littlemeadow123 let me put this another way.

Had you not been exposed to social media for the last decade, would you still define yourself as cis? I bet you wouldnt have even heard of it. So you would still call yourself a women. But oh look, we need another cult to join.

A lot of this BS is perpetuated on SM. I've known trans people, in the days before twitter/Facebook etc. It never once occurred to me to redefine myself on behalf of them. Funnily enough they were happy to go about their lives without making all these weird definitions up. Everyone knew "Christine" was a transvestite. Everyone knew "Eddie" enjoyed cross dressing. "Rachel" is a post-op transsexual. These are real people I knew. I never once thought I should re label myself on behalf of them nor did they ask people to. I used their proper pronouns out of respect but I'm a fairly liberal person. I would draw the line at being told I have to become a subset of my own class though.

It's weird how this bullshit wasn't a thing back then and now all of a sudden, social media says it is, so it MUST be true. Its fucking bollox and I'm surprised at the faux outrage it generates. You all sound like whiney babies with first world problems. How has being 'cis' affected your life prey tell? Bet it's no different than the way me being female has affected mine. I'll save my empathy for a more worthy cause, thanks.

@Spinachfinger

Fucking hell! I call myself cis around transsexual friends because they have had 'not trans' spat at them as a derogatory insult. How does that make me brainwashed?! I am just being sensitive to other people's feelings. I still consider myself a woman. I use cis as a descriptor, not a title or subset name. They don't mind me calling myself a woman either. Hell, I even call them women, because to call them men would misgender them and be offensive. I'm not going to suddenly start slagging the word cis of when I am one forum with other non trans people because I don't have a problem with using it in these circumstances and it would make me two faced.

It's not transphobic to reject the tenets of transgenderism, any more than it's Muslim-phobic to reject the tenets of Islam.

It does irk rather, when people who've never given it a moment's thought beyond the desire to be kind to their mates, come along and tell people who've been personally grappling with this ideology for decades that we're being unkind and not inclusive for not bowing down to the newcomer's take on things.

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Spinachfinger

Do you accept the fact that I'm cis. You can't really if you tell me that my identity belongs only in academia.[/quote]
You can call yourself what you want, just don't expect everyone to joyfully accept that label in relation to themselves. You can't force anyone to use it either. I am not a subset of my own sex thank you very much. Woman will do, just like it has for millennia.