The cost

It's helping kill my marriage. He's very much 'no debate' and thinks I'm on the wrong side of history. I can't forgive him for not taking on board my views or even accepting that I, as an older woman, might have a perspective worth listening to. He has advised me to educate myself by reading up on the right kind of feminism, the younger women he follows on Twitter. He really is a complete twat on the subject and I feel utterly betrayed. We have agreed to avoid the subject. Yeah he's got a beard.

@TheGoogleMum I’m in the same boat as you. Thankfully my mum, sisters, sister in law are with me on this. I’ve never told my other half this though. Like you, we don’t talk about it any more.

I'm late to this thread, but I remember vestalvirgin. I didn't know she wrote gender critical fan fiction, I'd love to see it.

On the topic of online cultishness, I'm not immersed in fandom at all. I never post on Reddit, I don't have a Twitter or Tumblr account, but I have written a fan fic while in lockdown. It was bizarre because I went on Reddit around the time JKR posted terf wars, and members of that fandom were saying how much they loved my writing and the feminist streak that runs through it. (Stealth boast...) And then in another bit, they were all abusing JKR horrifically, with lots of Karen-ing! It was a surreal and horrible experience. And it was more surreal because while I don't try and preach gender critical, my feminism is very obviously sex-based and yet they were all over that. It was so odd.

Yes it is... be extra careful with any personal info.

I suspect this thread is getting extra special scrutiny because it was started by Glinner.

Thank you hermoine - I've just seen it and you made a very good point that needed making in just two short lines.

xx

@BaronEssoStation PM on its way...

I'm furious too.

I'd like to read your post and if you don't mind the faf could you copy and paste if you still have it (or anyone else?) and send it to me privately. It's pathetic that we have to do that on our board that we love but we will prevail I'm sure. xx

I missed the deleted post by son and I'd really like to read it.

If anyone copied it (I do that all the time with great posts) could you please send it to me in a private message?

Thank you. xx

Good grief - why has Son's post gone? It was very funny - the idea of an au pair who was a philosophy undergraduate being subjected to the Socratic method by Son (gently ask questions until the logical incoherence of their position becomes inescapable, then patiently explain all the logical fallacies they've committed) was hilarious.

My friends are thankfully all sane. Some of them are still on the "#bekind" wavelength, but even they can see the issues of self id etc.

The only person I (nearly) lost was my 20 yr old DD. She is 2nd yr at Uni, entrenched in wokeness, has trans friends and simply couldn't comprehend when I told her I not only didn't hate JKR but actively agreed with her.
We have always discussed and debated any subject and she's usually excellent at critical thinking (Wants to be a Barrister - much better at arguing and way smarter than me) but this is one subject she just won't discuss with me.

It's honestly as if I've said I support Hitler or something.

I’ve not lost friends because of my GC beliefs. My friends and I agree to disagree. Always like a lively debate together and they are great people who I respect. We don’t have to agree about general politics or gender politics or parenting.

I haven’t lost any friends because thankfully everyone I know thinks gender identity politics is complete bollocks.

I haven’t lost anything thankfully. And that’s because everyone I know in real life thinks gender stuff is bollocks when I point it out to them, are gobsmacked when they are told there are people advocating for males to play contact sports against women, and are horrified when I point out to them that hormone treatment for children results in no sexual function, infertility and a host of other problems. I haven’t trawled my Facebook to see if anyone has removed me as a friend as a result, and if I did I wouldn’t care.

I know this is the antithesis of the thread but I think it’s important to recognise - and point out to those TRAs who monitor 👋- that the majority of people think the way we all do here, the house of cards is close to tumbling, and they can rage all they want, but their dangerous ideology won’t prevail.

@PenguindreamsofDraco, I was going to say the same thing. My DH refuses to discuss it at all, likes to give the impression that I have some mad bee in my bonnet. It is lonely and means that I have no RL person to discuss this with, especially my concerns relating to my teenage daughter and her trans school friends.

I was part of an online forum for years, so knew lots of people, both IRL and online. There were 2 people I used to meet up with a few times a year. I'd known them for nearly 15 years. As soon as I said I didn't think Transwomen were women they deleted me.

We're still part of the same forum but now I rarely post or reply because I feel they're all against me (I know it isn't true, I've spoken to a few others about it, but they won't air their views online.) I feel like I've lost my whole online support group really. And one of my sons keeps asking when he'll see my ex friends again.

In my group of closest friends, two are very vocal, would regard themselves feminists (slogans with hating the patriarchy etc)
Both have bitten with rabid relish into JK and Glinner on FB recently.
One posted about how cancel culture isn’t happening.
Both of them would cancel me in a heartbeat right now.

And thank you, Glinner, for your support for women! And for your fabulous sitcom writing, which has brought me and so many others much joy.

I haven't lost any friends through this - I guess to lose a woke friend, you have to have a woke friend to lose? I'm of an age where thankfully few of my friends are woke. They've had kids and are going through menopause and suffered the resultant impact on their career progression so know very well what a woman is, thank you.

Maybe the solution to avoid the distress is to make friends with more gender-critical feminists, who are more intelligent and better company. :)

I haven’t lost friends, thankfully.

Some - we agree to disagree. A good friend of 30 years, who’s gay, posted about TERFs, etc, but we had a very honest open discussion. Because of my daughter’s experiences I could give examples of safeguarding failures, etc.

The biggest cost to us has been from the mental health service. Because dd had suicide attempts after desisting after 4 years of identifying as male, the first conclusion jumped to is that she’s been converted by us and is in denial about not being transgender. It’s cost years of not being able to get an ASD assessment because they are not prepared to accept the black and white thinking which lead dd to think she was male, is anything to do with autism.

It’s cost dd years of her childhood.

My best friend and I had been discussing the aggressiveness of the TRAs and the unreasonable loss of women only spaces, sports, etc. for about a year or more and then friend's DD said "how does it hurt you, why can't you just be kind?" The mantra of the unthinking masses.

I did not fall for this clincher argument. My friend did, and we can no longer speak on these issues. I am right but alone and I can handle that, not sure how my friend will handle finding out she was wrong, and women's rights do matter.

Haven’t lost anyone, my best friends brother is gay, not transitioning
We have lots of chats about The transgender nonsense