Today’s witch burning - Rosie Duffield MP

labourlist.org/2020/08/trans-people-must-be-heard-by-the-labour-party/?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Written by a trans man.

I've several issues with it.

"it paints trans women as ridiculous individuals wanting to be centred in discussions that don’t affect them."

That's because women have been told time and time again by trans women that we mustn't discuss our biology when discussing women's issues. And why no "people with prostates" jargon?

"Duffield’s comments have real-world consequences in terms of healthcare. Robert Eads, a trans man from Georgia, USA, died of ovarian cancer in 1999 because gynaecologists refused to treat him due to his transition. More than 20 different doctors would not refer him for treatment, and some instead opted to refer him to psychiatrists."

This is tragic but the fact that the only example that can be found was in Georgia, USA, and happened over 20 years before Duffield made her comments is pretty poor proof. If anything being rebuffed by doctors and told that your pain must be in your head is a sign that there doctors still saw Robert as female.

"In the UK, when transgender people get a new NHS number to reflect their true gender, there is currently no way for the system to acknowledge their transition. This means that trans women receive reminders for smear tests but trans men, who may have not yet had any form of genital reconstruction surgery, or who do not believe such procedures to be a part of their transition, do not receive those reminders"

If this is true, it seems like it would be worth focussing efforts on getting this changed. So much of the "people with a cervix" stuff is coming on twitter that it again omits a huge portion of the population.

"I have seen several friends tweeting that they intend to leave Labour as they cannot support a party that does not take an unequivocal stance in favour of the inclusion of transgender people in all aspects of life"

What aspects of life are you being excluded from?

This feels like the thread for this (came across it in a DT article on the need for comedy to be genuinely subversive rather than tamely parroting whatever woke ideology is in vogue):
John Cleese on extremism

Come on, Marsha!

I'm sure GLAAD will step in shortly with one of their generous (re-)education packages.
Dawn Butler did well out of them.

Yup. Re-education needed, stat.

Her predecessor did nothing but bang on about trans rights, she likes one tweet and Labour are horrible transphobes. Hope the party are taking note.

She has started to get comments on her twitter account.

De Cordova did? Brilliant!

YY DianasLasso, it's not a coincidence that the gender-over-sex agenda has been advanced under Conservative governments.

Oh, and what was that about 'white feminism'?

Marsha De Cordova is next in line for burning. She like the tweet by the Archbishop defending Rosie Duffield

Sent her an email in support
And I vote conservative, this is bigger than how you vote. Let’s all support her pls

it's a left/liberal issue.

Yes!

But I do worry we're caught in an unholy pincer movement.

The left/liberal side of politics are trying to remove the language we need to talk about the ways our oppression is grounded in (but - importantly - not determined by) our biology.

The danger is that the right will accept biology, but then use it to argue erroneously for biological determinism (as a fallacious thought process correctly glossed as "contingent reproductive biology necessitates social role) to exclude us from the public realm once more. This seems to me to be a very real danger in a time when women are demonstrably being hit hardest by the threat of covid-related redundancies, partly because of being disproportionately likely to work in retail/customer facing service industries, and partly because the burden of childcare and home schooling has fallen on us disproportionately.

It's that Venn diagram again, isn't it?

The woke - biology is a social construct, gender identity is real.
The right - biology is real, but so too are rigid gender roles.
GC women - biology is real, gender identity is an illusion , gender roles are a social construct.

There doesn't have to be a conflict though of course. But there is with whats currently being asked for. Trans people could gain rights, and women would stand beside them, aslong as the rights are not basically snatched from women.

Accept that there is no material conflict between trans rights and women’s rights

Not getting why this gets repeated all the time when everyone knows its total bollocks. Even those who blindly accept it..if they think for just a few seconds, would get it. Mind, I guess they are specifically told not to think, just to repeat the mantra..

Agree ThePurported this isn't just a hard left issue, it's a left/liberal issue.

Justhadathought
"they are no longer interested in everyday reality, but have their eyes permanently fixed on the distant goal - to which all energies are directed."

The magic crusade, which means you will remain unelectable for the forseeable future.

Hm. If I was KS, I think I would have it out with them all, publically. It might actually be his only way out of this. 'Let's all stop pretending - men can't be women, grow up'. Reveal the emperor's new clothes. Sack the worst of them. Make it very clear there will be no pandering to extremists.

There would be wailing from certain quarters, but it would cauterise the festering sore, and the huge majority of the country would heave a sigh of relief and get on with the work of rebuilding after corona/Brexit.

Well, we know Starmer's answer, because he signed one of the pledges. Anyone who wants to be a woman can be a woman.

People can blame Momentum all they like, but the uncomfortable truth is that all leadership candidates supported self id, and all of them except KS signed the pledge that labelled Woman's Place UK a hate group and called for the organisers and others to be expelled from the party.

Six months ago Lisa Nandy explained to a hustings audience how she would put male sex offenders in a women's prison if that is their preference, because identity. Now she sits in the shadow cabinet.

It's only a matter of time before Keir Starmer is asked by the media 'what is a woman?'. If he waffles nonsense like Layla Moran, Jo Swinson etc then Labour are doomed.

All this in fighting in Labour, Greens and Lib Dems is alarming and nauseating. They are all going to implode and in the end, it's the people that are going to suffer.

I don't know how the Kramer can allow this, tbh. His silence is showing he is weak.

To be honest I'm shocked how vicious they are and I've always voted Labour. The Momentum groups are calling for a vote of no confidence in Starmer over this and Barry Sheerman.

Lisa Nandy isn't hard left and signed the trans pledge, I was going to vote for her in the leadership contest until she signed it. The silence from Keir Starmer and most of the party isn't good enough for me which is why I'm no longer a member.

're Starmer choosing the 'wrong' side - I suppose they have him either way, don't they? Maybe this why he stays silent, like so many others.

@CLCB07 absolutely. I think this is why they are stirring the pot. They are determined to make Starmer pick a side, and they will pounce if he chooses the wrong side. They are like people poking a hornets nest. Anyone who doesn’t agree is to be cancelled. Never mind all the money JK donated to Labour, never mind all her charity work, never mind that she pays every single penny she should in tax, she is to be cancelled because she said something bad about Corbyn. He isn’t even the bloody leader anymore but still he must be defended.

I would say the TRAs come almost 100% from the hard left, and they are flippin radged! This is why they are allowed free reign, they are like naughty kids threatening the peace and quiet of the adult world where debate and reason should be the answer, not tantrums.