Page 3 | I have been recorded by my local police force as 'hateful'

Spero · 2020-07-31T08:15:52+00:00

Dear All I am posting here in case I 'disappear' from Twitter. I set out the background here if you want to read more. [[https://twitter.com/SVPhillimore/status/1289109245280100353?s=20]] In a nutshell I made a Subject Access Request of Wiltshire police after a Twitter account boasted I now had a 'record for life' of my 'hate'. The police disclosed to me 12 pages of screenshots that were not hateful in the least; they were mainly discussions about the GC debate that have been confirmed as protected political speech. I have requested this is deleted; the Information Management Team at Wiltshire have declined so I will go through their appeal process, eventually to the PCC and then judicial review. I am writing to urge ANYONE who publishes on line about gender ID etc in their own name or is otherwise readily identifiable, to make a SAR of you own force to see what is recorded against you; you will not be told. If there are others in the same position as me it might be sensible to consider joining forces in some kind of class action. hopefully I will know by the autumn if I am going for JR.

ArriettyJones · 31/07/2020 20:01

@MamaLion1319

I'm not commenting for the followers of this post, my comments are for Sarah.

Nonsense. If you didn’t want an audience you’d send your abusive messages privately.

MamaLion1319 · 31/07/2020 20:01

Bless you @JackiesArmy

JackiesArmy · 31/07/2020 20:01

I'm sure she'll be delighted to hear from you. You sound lovely

MamaLion1319 · 31/07/2020 19:59

I'm not commenting for the followers of this post, my comments are for Sarah.

ArriettyJones · 31/07/2020 19:56

@MamaLion1319 not only is that a personal attack, it doesn’t even make sense. I honestly can’t work out what you’re accusing her of.

JackiesArmy · 31/07/2020 19:56

Interesting comment, MamaLion. I presume you have proof?

Your last sentence is confusing. I presume it means Spero isn't a [omits word to avoid deletion]

MamaLion1319 · 31/07/2020 19:53

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MamaLion1319 · 31/07/2020 19:47

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ScrimpshawTheSecond · 31/07/2020 19:45

could I write a bot that randomly reports Tweets as Hate against me personally and become, single-handedly, the most oppressed group in the entire country?

I can just hear some people's eyes lighting up at the very thought.

RadandMad · 31/07/2020 19:26

So appalled by this, Spero. Count me in with any digging.

Kantastic · 31/07/2020 19:24

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Original poster

Spero · 31/07/2020 19:14

the occurrence report seemed only concerned about one of the tweets where I said 'I think my dog may be Jewish, shall I leave him behind'?.

The Specialist Hate Crimes Officer said a public order offence is 'not wholly made out' as there wasn't sufficient proof I was intending to say Jewish people were like dogs.

I wasn't. It was a stupid remark in a long conversation. But the context of the tweets were deliberately ignored.

the occurrence report then specifically said the rest were my opinion and not a crime, however 'offensive' to the Reporting Person.

But it still starts with a 'barrister who has been posting hate'.

I am entirely unclear what the police have categorised my discussion re abortion rights for eg.

Whole thing a ridiculous hot mess.

OP posts:

Kantastic · 31/07/2020 18:30

Spero, this is completely outrageous and I'm so sorry this has happened to you, what a fucking Kafkaesque nightmare we're heading into as a country.

You mentioned that the same tweets appeared over and over again in the report and I am trying to understand this, the implications are staggering.

-Is each Tweet that is reported a Hate Incident?
-If the same Tweet is reported 1000 times is that 1000 Hate Incidents?
-If the reporting is anonymous could the same person report the same Tweet 1000 times to create 1000 Hate Incidents?

Assuming I have a Protected Characteristic and coding skills, could I write a bot that randomly reports Tweets as Hate against me personally and become, single-handedly, the most oppressed group in the entire country?

BentBastard · 31/07/2020 18:16

Read thread now. Spero, just want to say sorry this is happening to you, it's appalling. I'm most grateful to you and others that speak out in your own names. I can't post on my own on public social media (on any topic) per my terms and conditions of my employment, which is for good reason, so I am grateful to those that do.

BentBastard · 31/07/2020 18:06

As an aside, Haven't read whole thread but wanted to let you know, was surprised I hadn't seen this on Twitter and checked and I have been unfollowed from you (I did not unfollow you) so if you have lost some followers, this may be a reason!

ThePurported · 31/07/2020 16:55

They've reported for hate against them (unsubstantiated), and I was thinking that you could report them for hate against you - substantiated by your own posts which are anodyne and do not demonstrate hate at all, merely a different pov. Their reporting of you does demonstrate malice and bad faith.

But you can't report 'hate' unless you link it to one of the protected strands - not exactly difficult if the mere mention of the word Nazi gets you a six-year record, just in case (of what??), but it doesn't solve the problem.
And you can't report someone just because they took advantage of the vagueness of the definition 'non-crime ... perceived by any person'.

The police and the CPS have created this problem, and they refuse to acknowledge the misuse of hate-incident reporting even when they are given concrete examples.
It's very worrying.

Jux · 31/07/2020 16:25

Then it's clearly 'malice aforethought' (sorry,, it's about the only bit of legalese I know ).

Oh, and ''heretofor'; I'll get my coat

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/07/2020 16:21

What do you mean monitor, you mean like screenshotting and reporting transphobic things?

It's all down to perception, that, isn't it? If talking about women's sex based rights is transphobic, then we have a problem. Which is the issue here.

Original poster

Spero · 31/07/2020 15:51

@Jux

They've reported for hate against them (unsubstantiated), and I was thinking that you could report them for hate against you - substantiated by your own posts which are anodyne and do not demonstrate hate at all, merely a different pov. Their reporting of you does demonstrate malice and bad faith.

They will not have reported me in their own names. I understand reporting can be done anonymously through the True Vision app. I think what they have done is encouraged another person to make the complaint. It was clearly planned and discussed otherwise why else boast about it on Twitter?

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Jux · 31/07/2020 15:37

They've reported for hate against them (unsubstantiated), and I was thinking that you could report them for hate against you - substantiated by your own posts which are anodyne and do not demonstrate hate at all, merely a different pov. Their reporting of you does demonstrate malice and bad faith.

Original poster

Spero · 31/07/2020 15:15

@herecomesthsun

What about the people suggesting sexual assaults against someone like JK Rowling? Is that okay by the police? Should we be reporting that as a hate crime then?

I have written a couple of very mild things on Twitter saying I support JKR as a fellow feminist and I quietly wished her a Happy Birthday today. My children love her books, and so do I, and she has done some great things in philanthropy etc. So should I be worried (also have my real name on Twitter)

Misogyny was deliberately excluded from the. 'Protected strands' for hate crime, as police candidly admitted they would have been overwhelmed.

I think what is protected is sexual orientation, transgender identity, race and disability - also religion? Not sure.

And of course 'gender identity is NOT a protected characteristic under the Equality Act: that is 'gender reassignment'

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herecomesthsun · 31/07/2020 14:57

What about the people suggesting sexual assaults against someone like JK Rowling? Is that okay by the police? Should we be reporting that as a hate crime then?

I have written a couple of very mild things on Twitter saying I support JKR as a fellow feminist and I quietly wished her a Happy Birthday today. My children love her books, and so do I, and she has done some great things in philanthropy etc. So should I be worried (also have my real name on Twitter)

NameXForThis · 31/07/2020 14:35

I wonder what the Baroness would find if she checked her “file”....

BovaryX · 31/07/2020 14:25

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

Where is the media outrage about this?

If you say something is 'hate' or 'bigoted' or even 'problematic' then it's cancelled, very effective thought-stopping terms. Journalists don't seem to investigate further, they've bought into it, too, shockingly for those whose livelihood depends on freedom of speech.

Oh, 'freedom of speech' is a right-wing dog whistle, too, don't you know?

The manipulation of language is at the core of this. Because this is Newspeakdictionaryterritory. 'Bigot' is deployed to shut down dissent. It is used to silence inconvenient questions. Words are redefined in a way that strips them of their meaning and they are reformulated in service of the new orthodoxy. This is an attack on the foundational principles of the Enlightenment; freedom of speech, debate, diversity of opinion. Unfortunately, the fourth estate's epic failure to interrogate any of this authoritarian agenda is because they are in thrall to much of it. I increasingly have very little respect for those who use 'right wing' as an insult against people prepared to defend Enlightenment values. Maybe those who use it should ask why the left wing has capitulated to such totalitarian impulses?

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 31/07/2020 14:09

Where is the media outrage about this?

If you say something is 'hate' or 'bigoted' or even 'problematic' then it's cancelled, very effective thought-stopping terms. Journalists don't seem to investigate further, they've bought into it, too, shockingly for those whose livelihood depends on freedom of speech.

Oh, 'freedom of speech' is a right-wing dog whistle, too, don't you know?