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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can you believe this image

60 replies

modargh · 29/07/2020 16:45

So the MOD commissioned a report to look into the needs of military families today, it's called "Living in our shoes" www.gov.uk/government/publications/living-in-our-shoes-understanding-the-needs-of-uk-armed-forces-families

If you have a quick look at the link and see the front page of the report, you'll see the image they decided to use to represent the report that is supposed to review the needs of the modern MOD family, it is an image of scruffy boots, pristine pointed heels, some dishevelled looking converse and pretty polished ballet pumps. Ah yes, the M, F, M, F household with the man slaving away in the military with the delicate wife in her pretty heels with nothing important to do in her impractical footwear. The neatly presented little girl shoes, and mischievously placed boys converse....ok I appreciate I'm interpreting this with a specific agenda, but can you see what I mean?

An image that should encapsulate what the MOD is today looks like something out of 1970. Where does it leave female serving personnel, or homosexual households, or anyone that doesn't prescribe to this outdated vision of the family. I appreciate there is not one image to represent a family, which is why they shouldn't have even tried especially given the context of the report.

As a military spouse who has encountered sexism, regularly, as a result of my husband's career choice, in trying to pursue my career and have my husband's employer understand his career does not always need to take precedence and that our childcare responsibilities are shared (within reason, obviously it is a different lifestyle with a certain level of understanding of the commitment it involves from both of us) it is just incredibly frustrating. How can they understand our "needs" if they are still advertising the military family in this way.

So I complained to the review panel, and said I really didn't think it was an appropriate image for the report and asked them to re-consider, because it is not very inviting and ostracises a lot of their employees and families- in direct conflict with the point of the report.

The MP Andrew Selous who sat on the panel, replied to my complaint. You may want to have a quick look at his Wiki page to see if you can preempt his reply, if you're not familiar with him already as I wasn't. Needless to say the crux of his reply was that I was wrong, that the image was "deliberately" picked because the boots could be worn by both and it could be a lesbian household. This from the man who wouldn't vote for same sex marriage because "Jesus disagrees".

I just need to vent, I don't know what I'm looking for. I sent a very long response to him to explain why the image isn't appropriate and the response I had gotten on my social media from military employees and spouses, male and female, but I suspect I will be placed in the offended snowflake bucket.

Why can't people just LISTEN.

(Name changed as I wrote about it on my social media so don't want people linking me up to my previous posts if they're on here).

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Staplemaple · 31/07/2020 09:20

Not all boys*

Staplemaple · 31/07/2020 09:20

Exactly, as we know now all boys are into messy play and converse, and that's fine; but that's never an issue, and still seen as aspirational and a non issue. I am all for the fact that people shouldn't be reduced to being defined by certain imagery, in this case shoes, but it definitely is towards the erasure of things that women may enjoy, because they are always the ones being highlighted as being changed to something like messy converse.

@PurBal why would they use all boots when what they are trying to do is break down barriers that make military life often challenging and incompatible with family life? That suggests that they all are centred around the military, something they're trying to distance away from.

TitianaTitsling · 31/07/2020 09:04

@Staplemaple

Also isn't it odd that people always have issues with the heels and the ballet shoes, typically associated with women? The converse which are lazy associated by many to boys (although every woman I know owns a pair) are seen as aspirational, whereas the others are seen as not. Why can't we teach children that the world is their oyster without making 'girls' things undesirable. If you are a girl who wants to do ballet, that's fine; same as if you are a woman who wants to wear heels that's also fine. It seems the desire to open doors is at the expense of erasing things associated with women, quelle shock.
Absolutely this! It's always the why on earth would anyone want to wear ballet shoes or pink heels, urgh how awful! But messy converse and boots, yay! aspirational and cool! for me, that's pigeonholing people!
PurBal · 31/07/2020 08:53

I actually agree OP. I like the shoes imagery but think there should have been 4 pairs of boots, in different neutral tones if you wish, but why the cream stilettos I have no idea. And then the report goes on to discuss changing gender roles.....

Staplemaple · 31/07/2020 08:38

Also isn't it odd that people always have issues with the heels and the ballet shoes, typically associated with women? The converse which are lazy associated by many to boys (although every woman I know owns a pair) are seen as aspirational, whereas the others are seen as not. Why can't we teach children that the world is their oyster without making 'girls' things undesirable. If you are a girl who wants to do ballet, that's fine; same as if you are a woman who wants to wear heels that's also fine. It seems the desire to open doors is at the expense of erasing things associated with women, quelle shock.

Staplemaple · 31/07/2020 07:52

As a military spouse who has encountered sexism, regularly, as a result of my husband's career choice, in trying to pursue my career and have my husband's employer understand his career does not always need to take precedence and that our childcare responsibilities are shared (within reason, obviously it is a different lifestyle with a certain level of understanding of the commitment it involves from both of us)

Why is that sexism? If you were serving, your husband would have the same role at home as you have, it's just most people don't want that life that way round. Also it's a photo, more bothered about the content to be honest, is society really going down this road?

DidoLamenting · 31/07/2020 07:43

I don’t think anyone is saying they have a problem with women wearing stilettos

Well the OP has- they "scream housewife" to her; but the OP seems to have a problem with housewives and officers' wives too.

JKRisagryff · 30/07/2020 22:52

Not bored of life nicky, quite the opposite. Impassioned by the love and protectiveness I feel for my DD and not wanting her to grow up internalising the subtle drip drip of sexism fed to her by marketing in our society.

I don’t think anyone is saying they have a problem with women wearing stilettos. Your sister can wear whatever she wants to the office, it is certainly none of mine or anyone else on this thead’s business - cos feminismGrin

nicky7654 · 30/07/2020 22:19

This thread is rediculous. Are you simply bored of life so want to find fault in a picture? my sister wears stilettos daily to the office would you prefer it if she wore Wellington's with rainbows on them??? Get a life!!!!

DidoLamenting · 30/07/2020 22:11

@modargh

(They also scream officer family to me but that's a debate we really don't need to get into ha!)
oh do let's- after all you've demonstrated plenty of prejudices- why not go the whole hog,
DidoLamenting · 30/07/2020 22:10

Good for you. Are you defined by your shoes?

Well according to modargh indeed I am- my shoes would scream "housewife" to her.

Aside from demonstrating her pitiful lack of imagination and rigid and judgemental application of stereotypes what exactly is wrong with being a housewife?

DidoLamenting · 30/07/2020 22:06

I wasn't thinking housewife from this decade. I don't think they look like career women's shoes personally. Even if they were black I could forgive it more (as personnel can wear black heels)

Try broadening your mind. You are extremely judgemental

Your point about it being "service woman" is irrelevant. The picture is clearly meant to represent a household of different members. Pairs of boots won't do that.

It isn't saying female members of the army wear shoes like that on duty. You seem to have decided that no female army member would ever wear them.

You really are very patronising and narrow minded. Your ridiculous comments about housewives and what a career woman should wear are risible.

TitianaTitsling · 30/07/2020 21:26

@modargh

(They also scream officer family to me but that's a debate we really don't need to get into ha!)
Really? Why not? So you don't see these shoes as representative of you therefore they can represent no-one?
JKRisagryff · 30/07/2020 21:18

Yes Matilda on average men’s feet are four sizes bigger than women’s but it goes without saying that some women have larger than average feet and some men have smaller than average feet. But does your husband wear size 5 pink stilettos? Because otherwise this image is still not representative of you and your family.

And it doesn’t seem likely either that what they’re trying to represent is a lesbian woman wearing size 12 boots. It seems pretty blatant what they’re actually going for.

Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies · 30/07/2020 18:36

I’m a little bit irritated at the suggestion women (lesbian or otherwise) don’t have big feet. My feet are the same size as my DH (who is not a small man). DD (16) has even bigger feet.

modargh · 30/07/2020 18:32

Sorry not sure why that bolded part of the post

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modargh · 30/07/2020 18:32

@DidoLamenting this is report about FORCES families, amongst which there are female forces personnel, the same to @Goosefoot it's less about the fact it's a male/female couple which yes is statistically more common (although again not terribly inclusive for a report trying to support forces families in all their forms) it's the fact they've put the man in the boots and the woman in the non serving role, well that's one of the issues there are a number in the image, the fact some women wear heels like that to work does not change the ghastly stereotyping and the cringeworthy disregard for female forces personnel, AGAIN in light of the context of the report, I don't care if statistically more men serve.

@Goosefoot I wasn't thinking housewife from this decade. I don't think they look like career women's shoes personally. Even if they were black I could forgive it more (as personnel can wear black heels).

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Goosefoot · 30/07/2020 17:23

But I would say heels suggest a career women to me. Not a housewive. You'd need sneakers for that.

Goosefoot · 30/07/2020 17:22

The heels are a bit odd, not many people wear such things regularly. It would have been easy and more relatable to have picked more typical footware.

But as for being a husband/wife family - the fact is that heteronormativity is in fact normative, in the sense that it accounts for a strong majority of families.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 30/07/2020 17:08

Good for you. Are you defined by your shoes? Do you refute the stereotype being discussed? Do you dismiss the idea that some women wish to challenge the stereotype whilst supporting the individual choices of every woman?

Believe me, it's not all about you!

DidoLamenting · 30/07/2020 16:57

@modargh

And let's be honest they're not working shoes end of really. How many women go to work in pink/white heels. They scream housewife to me. Which is what a military spouse traditionally was. Nothing wrong with being a housewife, but again, it's about what's appropriate for this report, moving away from stereotypes, and the MOD being equipped to support the modern family.
How utterly judgemental. "They scream housewife to you"

Oh how dreadful. I occasionally wear pink , heeled shoes to work. I'm a partner in one of Scotland's largest law firms but I'd "scream housewife" to you . Even if I were a housewife- so what. Try looking at your own prejudices.

modargh · 30/07/2020 16:39

@Timmytoo no it's still there sadly, can you see it on this link? assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895237/Living_in_our_shoes__Summary__1__embargoed_30_June.pdf

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Timmytoo · 30/07/2020 16:37

I don't see any pictures. Could they have taken them off?

maxicheddar · 30/07/2020 16:31

I agree. If you want to write a report that tries to get people to identify with each other and others embracing diversity, it strikes me as being a really thick-headed incongruous idea to then try to simplify all those people's experiences into one single photo, bettered only by picking one that is so cliched. Fail.

modargh · 30/07/2020 16:19

(They also scream officer family to me but that's a debate we really don't need to get into ha!)

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