Is it wrong to objectify men?

Of course it’s wrong godmother, no one has said it’s right, just that it’s not the same thing.

Your son may well have felt very uncomfortable, but then he can step away and get on with his life without needing to concern his self with it again. Where as my teenage daughters would be stuck terrified as there is an actual threat posed by men, including your son, and my girls wouldn’t be free to step away from this objectification because they are physically much weaker, because many other men they will meet each day will also objectify them, because other people will tell them it’s their fault and they were asking for it and because they face a much much higher likelihood of being raped and/or murdered by a man than your son will ever face from any woman.

It’s gross and vile and wrong for that woman to objectify your son, but he still gets to walk away in the position of power, my girls never do. It’s really disturbing that on a feminism board women don’t understand this, that you don’t get that you need to teach your son about the difference so that he learns not to abuse his male privilege and power he has over my girls. Women who see male violence against women and girls as coming from a different type of male, not their precious sons or brothers or husbands, contribute to those men’s justification and excuse of their violence and objectification of women and girls. Claiming it’s the same it’s no different to shouting all lives matter in response to blm.

Worth saying that finding someone sexually attractive is not the same as objectifying them.
Yes. To me, objectification is treating the subject as less than human, as a person who you see as existing purely for your benefit.
Saying "phwoar he's gorgeous" is not objectifying

Saying "look at the body on that" is objectification. Touching or staring openly at said man without permission is objectification. Saying "If I could get him alone for 5 minutes, I'd give him a good seeing to" is objectification.

The ultimate in objectification to me was Ched Evans saying he got consent to sex by asking his friend if he could have a go (on the woman friend was having sex with). As if she was something like a bike or a games console.

This really does rile me. The only actual evidence anyone ever gives for "objectification of men" is the diet coke ad from 25 years ago. But we still have to discuss that "women do it too". Maybe, but not as many as men, and not to the same extent as men.

Of course it's wrong!!!

I had a middle aged woman make comments about my teenage son's body. She was lucky I didn't knock her out!

My son was extremely uncomfortable, but that's ok is it because in history women used to be men's possessions? So he deserves it because, well, he's a man!

So when it's ok? When he's in his 20's or married or when? When is it ok?

Can't believe some of what I'm reading here!

Today we have the Romance Holiday phenomenon

Who’s using who though? A lot of older women get scammed because they are delusional and believe that these young handsome men want to marry them!

Did you objectify him though or just comment you found him attractive? As in, did you treat him like his purpose was to look pretty and sit there quietly whilst you spoke to the other parent. Or did you speak to him like he had a valuable role in his childs life.

I agree with everything PPs said about the power balance. There are certainly ways in which women can objectify men. For example I'm imagining a very rich woman employing a poor young man to do her gardening with his shirt off. That would be objectifying and wrong. But I would say that remarking on "handsome dads" is not necessarily objectifying them.

I also think there's a lot in the way something is phrased. "doesn't he look handsome in a suit" is not the same as "I'd love to have a go on that".

Well there was slavery of course? And class conferred power on some women over men. Today we have the Romance Holiday phenomenon. Julie Bindel seems to be the only feminist who has noticed it though.

I always got the impression that objectifying meant something else though, like even having those thoughts in your mind was a bad thing. Thinking of someone in a sexual manner, however fleeting, is meant to be reducing someone to body parts or turning them into a sexual object. I could have interpreted it wrong, but that's the distinct impression I got whenever I've previously read or heard women's thoughts on the subject.

Why would you even objectify men? Frankly when there is a spread of ‘hot men’ I think it’s ridiculous looking (and maybe actually targeted towards gay men).

That said, it seems a lot of men are desperate to be objectified by women 🙄

Emily Maitlis did a fascinating article/interview with the Chippendale's a couple of years ago (will post link tomorrow when not on phone). One of the dancers made precisely the point about power imbalance and also the fact that it was much easier for him simply to step away from being objectified, and that he didn't see his situation as parallel to those of women in the same industry (he came across as a very thoughtful man, and much more clued up about sexual politics than your average sex possie lib fem).

It’s not the same thing at all.

A woman objectifying a man is rude, but it’s not predatory and isn’t something that’s within the power play that men have over us and their objectifying us needs to be seen as the abuse of male privilege that it is.

It’s the equivalent of it being rude for someone to complain about my skin being too pale but would be racist to comment on how dark a poc skin is. It’s an entirely different thing.

Worth saying that finding someone sexually attractive is not the same as objectifying them.

It's ok to find someone attractive, and to comment on it to someone else.

If you shouted it across the room, or made them feel uncomfortable or demeaned, or didn't take them seriously when you spoke with them...then that would be inappropriate. But my guess is you didn't?

Men aren’t objectified in that way in our society. If a man is desired in that way it increases his social capital in a way that isn’t quite the same for women. The line gets crossed in my mind when the individual internalises their own objectification. We are after all biologically programmed to find the opposite sex attractive. It the social paraphernalia that surrounds it that causes the problem.

I hate this and I've seen it done so many times to DS from the age of about 14, when I've been with him. Middle aged women generally as if its a charming thing to do. Its not charming its bloody rude to offer to help him out in the changing cubicle, or to touch his hair as you've always liked 'hair like that'

I would say 'do unto others...'. Yes, men as a whole have suffered less consequences of objectification but it seems hypocritical to use this to excuse one's own behaviours ('be the change you want to see in the world').

The objectification of women by men extends to a whole lot of really unpleasant behaviours eg Street harassment, ogling girls in school uniform etc

It's just a different ball game

Agree that the history and background makes it not a direct equivalence at all

There is no history of women treating men as possessions. But quite recently in history a woman basically belonged to her husband. I don't think many women can fully objectify men, as in thinking of them as things instead of people, in their minds. Even if they did, it wouldn't be as threatening to men as a group.

I've worked with firefighters a fair amount. And while many of them like it, a couple I worked with find it very uncomfortable. In a very similar way to women I know. I think that's a good equivalency because men generally don't deal with the constant low-level harassment from an early age as women do (11 in my case). Firefighters deal with it (albeit from the moment they train). Of course there is little of the same physical threat to it.

Best not.

I avoid it as it would be hypocritical of me

Although I agree that the power balance/ history/ possible threat/ are very different I don't think it's a good thing to do at work either way round.

I think it can be intimidating when men objectify women but that’s because, as others have pointed out, they have “the power”. A man making lewd comments may come and grab me-he has the power and it’s normalised for him to do so. And if he wants to he can kill me, ultimately. The dynamic is so different. We know men can kill us easily.

I try not to do it, because I believe it would be inconsistent of me as I believe objectifying women is wrong.

However I agree with the comments above that given the power differential between the sexes that we currently have, the two are not really comparable in terms of offence or harm likely to be caused.

I have seen a few men say that they like the experience of being objectified because it makes them feel sexually desirable! That is probably because they are not objectified day in and day out and they know that those doing the objectifying don't have the power to actually follow their words with deeds.

And I agree with sleepyhead in that the impact of being objectified does depend on this relative powers difference. But as a basic concept (and certainly if it actually occurred more with men) to openly objectify anyone, and especially to their face, is wrong.